ATA VS. WTF VS. ITF

[KSWDanMan]

I'm not part of ATA, ITF, or WTF.. But, If you like movement, kicks, etc in your forms, then maybe you should try Kuk Sool. In the 1st form(Hyung) you have front kicks, back kick, inside kicks, and jump inside kicks.. Lots of circular motions, etc... It's still a Korean style martial art, and they do a ton of TKD type things. Kicks, punches etc...

 

again I don't know about these styles or organizations, and I agree you shouldn't progress through the ranks in a year or so(thats crazy), but you should compete against yourself and push yourself to be your best, and not worry about the other individuals who get a belt just to say they have it.

[mattyj]

I have done ata and itf, i like both, they both have the good and the bad. i do like the ata forms better though, their are two front kicks and two side kicks in the very first form. in itf the first two kicks you see are front kicks in the 3rd form. in itf you don't even see a round kick in a form until hwa rang, the 8th form. you see four round kicks in the second ata form and two front kicks. you see 2 jump front kicks in the third ata form and 6 kicks altogether also you get to see kicks on consecutive movements. in itf you don't see more than 2 kicks in any form until joong gun, the 6th form and you don't see more than four kicks until toi gye, the 7th form. in the ata forms there 10 kicks in the forth form and you get to see reverse side kicks already.

 

yes you dont see a turning kick (round kick) until hwa rang but you learn it at yellow belt. in most cases (not everyone starts off athletically gifted) students arent ready to perform jumping kicks by the third form, thats so mcdojo/flash orientated... alright kids, first lesson! flying butterfly kicks!

 

i dont see how patterns are defined by how many/how early kicks are performed... especially at gup levels. id rather spend more time learning the basic techniques well than move on to flying kicks by the third form! itf patterns were designed by gen. choi with technique in mind, not 'XMA' style flash.

 

watch this video and youll see what i mean: video.

[KwicKixJ1]

xma shouldn't be associated with korean arts. or martial arts even

[embm]

We are an unaffiliated school and have been since Jhoon Rhee (the father of American TKD) broke away from the ITF. We have students that received their black belt in other ITF ATA and WTF affiliated schools come train in our school because we teach old-school blood and guts TKD. That being said, if I see a student from another school or style or affiliation that has something that I want to learn, like more powerful kicks, or an application for self defense that I have not seen before, I ask him/her to teach me. Everyone brings something valuable to the table. The question is whether you chose to learn or to close your mind.

[champ64]

I think wtf is the most competitive

[Kicks]

usatkdwtf said:

...Im a black sheep

But are you finally a 3rd degree black sheep?

Is anybody fimiliar with the ITA? I know them as all part of the "Tae Kwon Do Plus" franchise. A friend of mine goes to an ITA school and it looks sort of like how y'all described the ATA. It is a very close knit organization , you can not compete outside the ITA. They do the Hyung forms and point sparring. Their test are very simple and people advance very quickly (4 year old black belts). I know...McDojo to the max!

Here a link to a local ITA organization http://www.tkdplusonline.com/artmonroe.html

Edited May 10, 2005 by Kicks

[songfighter]

Kicks,

I checked out the web site you had listed, and after seeing the name of one of the "Grand Masters" instructors, I probably would agree with you that it is a mcdojo. Grand Master H U Lee, being the name of his first instructors, was the one that started the ATA. hmmm. Same thoughts, same theries. Pyramid effect. Start at the top, and feed off the bottom.

Song

[Aodhan]

I am currently in the ATA, and before you all start flaming, it was a conscious choice after doing several other styles (Including ITF and WTF) for several years before coming to the ATA.

ATA could care less if you compete outside the ATA. It's only ATA tournaments that are closed to non-ATA members. If that is cultish, guess you have a broader definition than I do.

Does the ATA produce it's fair share of undeserving black belts? Yes. Does the ATA have McDojo schools? Yes. However, they are in no bigger proportion than any other system out there. EVERY system has its share of McDojo type schools and students.

As far as XMA, several schools use it, and while Mike Chat is licensing it to the ATA, anyone that wants to pay the licensing fee can incorporate the curriculum into their school. It's a great way to keep the mid teens in the school, which is when they have the most other pulls to do something other than MA. It's also a great thing to do if you want to be competitive on the Open circuit, since that is the forms that get noticed, traditional or not.

Do I think the ATA has the best system? Yes. Are there flaws? Yes. When you weigh all the pros and cons, I think the ATA comes out on top.

Aodhan

[EternalRage]

Aodhan, I see from you styles description that you cross train. What is your ATA school's response to that?

[Aodhan]

Aodhan, I see from you styles description that you cross train. What is your ATA school's response to that?

They don't mind. I haven't crosstrained in a little over a year, I've been really concentrating on getting my teaching hours in (I'm required to have 300 hours of teaching in 100 hour blocks) for my full instructor certification. That's another reason that I really like the ATA. You have to have the teaching hours, and attend three certification test/camps (The full certification is a 3 day camp full of testing and workouts) before you are allowed to put on a black collar (Fully certified instructor). Most other styles, if you want to walk straight from your 1D test to an empty store and start teaching, you can.

There are a lot of people in the ATA that crosstrain, I think where the misconception is that if you OWN an ATA school, you are not allowed to have other martial arts taught in your school.

So, you couldn't have Joe Blow's ATA TKD and Kung Fu academy, or Miss Kates Tai Chi and ATA school.

Aodhan