EternalRage Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 well in terms of politics, comparing all the organizations (WTF, ITF, and ATA) all have had some sort of corruption. The ITF heads were accused of embezzling, as were the WTF heads, and there was of course that business with the IOC stuff with the WTF, and we all have read the previous posts about ATA. Political corruption is not unique to any organization.
EternalRage Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I think comparisons in terms of traditional-ness, competitiveness - you can only gauge these from school to school. The organizations are so large and encompassing that it is not really correct to generalize. WTF is competitive yes, but I have met competitive ITF practitioners. ITF is supposedly more traditional, but I have seen Moo Duk Kwan TKD WTF schools that still hold to many of the MDK's traditions. It all depends.
Aodhan Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I think comparisons in terms of traditional-ness, competitiveness - you can only gauge these from school to school. The organizations are so large and encompassing that it is not really correct to generalize. WTF is competitive yes, but I have met competitive ITF practitioners. ITF is supposedly more traditional, but I have seen Moo Duk Kwan TKD WTF schools that still hold to many of the MDK's traditions. It all depends.Well put. As I've said, I've had good experiences with the ATA. They certainly support their students more than other national organizations I've seen. I know the ATA has a lot of misperceptions out there, maybe some deserved, some not.Aodhan There are some people who live in a dream world, and there are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.-Douglas Everett, American hockey player
ranger1100ky Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 And for the record here... while I'm at it.-grin-I'm not wild about anyone, that bashes ANY association or style of martial art.I understand some have less than glowing opinions of the ATA...I understand some have less than glowing opinions of the ITF...I understand some have less than glowing opionions of the WTF...I understand that some folks even think Chuck Norris is nuts for starting the UFAF... Etc and so on...A true martial artist, is so bent on improving themselves, they don't have the TIME to speak unkindly of others.Why don't I think much of those that bash?Because it's obvious to me... they're not giving their best to their art, and TO THEMSELVES... because they're wasting time 'bashing' someone else.Take the bashing time... and convert it to time to make your form better... to teach your student better... to perfect that one technique that's been vexxing you...You'll like the results a lot better... because you'll get a better return on your investment of time.Bashing someone, or their art, is the exact opposite of 'building a more peaceful world'... which is one of the points brought out in the 'student oath' used in the old system...Bashing creates discord... hatred...That is not the Taekwondo way...Do two different tree branches hate each other because they look different?No... they each grow in their OWN way, so as to more beautify the tree, in harmony with each other.The focus of a TKD student should be on self-improvement... that is, the quintessential bottom line.Your's in Taekwondo,Paul "Tournaments are the least important aspect of martial arts..." Pat E. Johnson--Technical Advisor and "Chief Referee" for the Karate Kid movies.
usatkdwtf Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 sorry but that last post was a bit much. Were just expressing our opinions here.Adohan-There was nothing to my not testing other than what I said. What ATA region are you in? Its not the art, its the artist.
Kicks Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Excellence is not in the organization... it's in the student's willingness to always give their best... I like that. when you create the world's largest trailer park, you're going to have tornadoes
EternalRage Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Excellence is not in the organization... it's in the student's willingness to always give their best... This is true. But you also have to consider that when the organization is bad, this may lead to bad head leadership, which will trickle down to the instructors, then down to students. Politics helps form alot of our ideologies - its because of politics that you have an ITF and a WTF to begin with. So it is true that the student can be excellent in their skills by themselves, but to keep the art strong, you need a strong organization.sorry but that last post was a bit much. Were just expressing our opinions here.I agree. There is a thin line between bashing (which ppl on the internet like to call "flaming") and criticism. However, if a person has unique (albeit bitter) experiences with a system or organization, it is useful to post this not only to root out the fraud in martial arts, but also to inform the beginners of potential scams or cults in the martial arts.
Aodhan Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 sorry but that last post was a bit much. Were just expressing our opinions here.I agree. There is a thin line between bashing (which ppl on the internet like to call "flaming") and criticism. However, if a person has unique (albeit bitter) experiences with a system or organization, it is useful to post this not only to root out the fraud in martial arts, but also to inform the beginners of potential scams or cults in the martial arts.I apologize then, I didn't really see it in that manner when I posted it. I just have not heard of anything like that happening (Although I do know of some instances where contracts didn't transfer).usa, I am in region 118 (Pretty much narrows it down, the only state in that region is Az. )Oh, and Paul...two excellent posts. I found some good advice in there. Kamsamnida! (Or however you spell it...heh!)Aodhan There are some people who live in a dream world, and there are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.-Douglas Everett, American hockey player
ranger1100ky Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 Ahh... 118.Just reviewed a nice ATA site there, where Senior Master Babin had several of his articles posted.If the instructors and members of the ATA down your way, follow Senior Master Babin's example... then I'd say the spirit of Taekwondo is in excellent shape down your way!And from what I can tell 'Kamsamnida' is the proper westernized spelling for the Korean term for 'thank you'."Tun mon-AY-oh" (Not at ALL sure how to spell it in westernized Korean.) (You're welcome.The weakest area of my TKD, if not my right leg side kick (though it's pretty lousy IMHO), HAS to be my command of the Korean language. LOLAs for getting me to understand Hangeul as it is written? What's that EGM Lee said?Today impossible, tomorrow possible.Your's in TKD, "Tournaments are the least important aspect of martial arts..." Pat E. Johnson--Technical Advisor and "Chief Referee" for the Karate Kid movies.
markusan Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 I train in an Itf style where we use our hands and block in a very similar way to Karate. I was very critical of WTF as a sty;e because of their hands-down fighting style till we developed a relationship with a WTF association. Our sparring is very different obviously but I now have great respect for their counter-kicking techniques and their different use of fighting range. I'd love to see a style one day that combines our closer fighting and hand defence with the longer range techniques of WTF. and their multiple kick techniques. I'm not flexible enough these days to adopt those astral kicks
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