Drunken Monkey Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 .......so tempting......... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Rotten Head Fok Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 DM, your post never cease to educate me, I study and practice choy li fut from GM Doc Fai Wong. There are others schools in the family of which I know little if nothing about other than the name; choy lee fut, choy lay fut and there could be more. Anyway I'm not trying to toot a horn for my style here just adding to the thread. From the research I have read Wong was encouraged to come to the U.S. and I feel it is for some of the reasons given here. I have also read where even some of his teacher made trips too and that because of China's troubles many practitioners went into theater or occupations that allowed them to continue their training but under a guise. As with all of us time flies when your having fun so it wouldn't suprise me that some watering down of true form, style and technique happened because these people were never able to get back to a traditional structure making it difficult today to find a authentic Instructor of chinese martial arts. You must be stable and balanced in your foot work, if you have to use your martial knowledge in combat, your intent should be to win. If you do strike, you must release great power! The martial arts are easy to learn, but difficult to correct.
Drunken Monkey Posted August 21, 2004 Posted August 21, 2004 As with all of us time flies when your having fun so it wouldn't suprise me that some watering down of true form well, in most cases it isn't really watering down. a lot of the time, it is because the teacher has gotten so used to doing his way of things, he forgets to teach the original version. which is one reason i believe that original/old forms have a purpose: they act as a better starting point. for a start, if you can explain WHY you do something differently to how it is shown in the form, then your student has a better chance of understanding how things work. another problem is that some students train to 'be like' their teacher. a side effect is that they are imitating as opposed to making it their own. again, this is where original forms come into play again. the other scenario, is that often, non-family members were taught things differently. not neccessarily bad things, or even missing things, just differently. of course some people inevitably did omit some things from teaching but even then, that isn't neccesarily a bad thing (as the clever student should see where he has a failing and question himself, if not his teacher). thus, he fixes the flaws he finds and hey presto! 'new' technique. as for choy li fut, i know of two major lines of this style and it appears that you guys have more political issues than we do. by far and away the biggest problem with finding a proper fighting martial arts teacher in china is jet li. everyone wants to be him. i mean, the idea is too appealing. send your kid to MA school at the age of 5. leave him there for 5-6 years and when he grows older, after winning a few worldwide competitions, he will be in the films just like their hero..... easy, right? AND like i said, even the legit styles (i.e non wu/quo-shu places) have biiiig schools teaching aesthetic renditions. even wing chun, a style that almost has no aesthetic has fallen foul of competitions where chi sau is the judge of skill. EXCEPT it doesn't quite work. chi sai is about finding the centre, maintaining the centre, and breaking through the centre. the end result is to hit and to knock down the opponent. in the chi sau comps, you do not go beyond the centre i.e there is no hit, no going forward, no trapping space, no crowding space. you just stand there (except for the last of the three rounds) they have removed a vital part of it to accommodate 'fair' contest. they have removed the forward pressure which is supposed to be automatic. in other words, they train for this by REMOVING the 'auto-pilot' so to speak. they train you to hold back. wrong wrong wrong...... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Rotten Head Fok Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 DM, at the time the ''watering down" was what came to mind so I appauligize.it is because the teacher has gotten so used to doing his way of things, he forgets to teach the original version. As with all of us, time flies when your having fun Yeah, from my research clf has it's politics, but it is more trivia to me, but I try my best to think of my past masters mind set in training given their times political reality. I guess I'm guilty of over thinking my training in trying to incorperate thoughts of people I have never met and do not know; enthusiastic search for a nexus. You must be stable and balanced in your foot work, if you have to use your martial knowledge in combat, your intent should be to win. If you do strike, you must release great power! The martial arts are easy to learn, but difficult to correct.
Drunken Monkey Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 woah.... no need to apologise. i just picked at it just in case... and also to throw a few more things into the air for guys to read. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
wing chun kuen man Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Shorin ryuu, As mentioned before many kung fu masters left the mainland but others stayed behind. With the reunification of Hong Kong some masters are "linking" and even returning to the mainland to promote and preserve real traditional kung fu as lets say, a reaction to the "watering down" that has been so common lately. Also, lets not forget that there are numerous family styles and masters who live in China and of course because of their inherente secretiveness it is very difficult to keep track of them. However, don´t be suprised to hear about authentic kung fu styles (and masters) that are unheard of in the west, including unknowen variations of styles familiar to us, sometime in the future as China opens up more. Wing Chun Kuen Man Real traditional martial arts training is difficult to find.....most dojos in the west are Mcdojos....some are better and some are worst....but they are what they are....do you train in one?
Judo Warrior Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 Thanks a lot for the interesting info, Drunken Monkey - A coward dies a thousand deaths, A warrior dies but once.- No matter how strong the wind is, The mountain cannot bow to it.
Drunken Monkey Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 the whole china hong kong reunification isn't that simple.... hong kong people do not consider themselves to be 'china ma' (big green man). most people wouldn't dream of going 'back' for any reason other than to fulfil obligations and invitations. the instances that i know of where masters and by this i mean recognised heads of style, going back was because of invitation from government or associations, which by their nature in china, ARE the government.... not easy to refuse such an invitation. as for those that did stay. knowing what they are like, i'm not entirely convinced that they would openly teach non-chinese people either. not ruling it out, but i just can't see it. chinese view on western people is probably more 'warped' than western views on the chinese. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
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