Information for a newbie interested in joining Kuk Sool Won.

[DLopez]

Thanks again for the info, it's really appreciated!!

 

...

 

How would you say that the locks/throws/grapples differentiate KSW from other arts?

 

From what I understand the main difference with the techniques is that we use pressure point manipulations to "persuade" the attacker to comply with how you want them to move. Note: This is not the same as some other "styles" that claim to be able to hit a particular point and incapacitate you though. We use the pressure points to enhance the effectiveness of our throws and locks. Basically, when you feel the extreme pain from the pressure point, you become a very willing subject and move how the person wants you to. That said, most of the locks and throws are still pretty effective even if you don't hit the pressure point.

 

The forms (or "Hyung" in Korean) are unique, IMO, because they are a hard-soft style. That is, they aren't totally soft like say Taichi (sp?), and they aren't totally hard like Karate Katas or Taekwondo Hyung. You will be required to learn a new hyung for each belt level, and each form up to black belt will emphasize a different aspect such as linear motion (Cho Geup Hyung - yellow belt form), or circular motion (Joon Geup Hyung - Blue belt form), etc. Interestingly, the very first form you learn (Ki Cho Hyung) will combine those motions, as it has been described as really a black belt level form. I think the anecdote was that if you learn the hard one first, the rest seem easy.

Well, in the Kung Fu class, we did practice our forms along with everyone else, but at the end of class, the instructor would make everyone in the class do their forms one at a time in front of everyone (the instructor wasn't really helpful with his critiques either, and would sometimes be abrasive). I was a bit uncomfortable with this, as I wasn't experienced at all, especially when the instructor wasn't helping much with his attitude.

 

The only thing I can say about that is that it was probably more of a reflection on that particular instructor, and not Kung Fu as a style. Maybe he was just having a bad day?

 

 

I'm under the impression that Kuk Sool Won is a bit more comprehensive than other arts, and takes things much slower than usual (from what I've read). On the flip side, it allows you to gain a much more comprehensive understanding of the katas, and how they fit in with the artform (am I correct here?)

 

I'd say that's a pretty good assessment of KSW. From the kicking/punching, to the joint locks/throws, forms, weapons, and if you stick with it long enough, healing arts (master level instruction only), I am finding it to be quite a satisfying journey.

I'm thinking of going to watch the adult class tomorrow, to gauge how it is . Here's hoping that it'll be great!

 

I hope you enjoy it. Let us know some feedback!

One more thing, might you have any more KSW videos? I'm still curious, hehe.

 

I think that site had a few more, but I just did a google to find that one. I wish I had a web server, because I have some good ones from demos our dojang has put on.

[enigmatic_cat]

Somebody made this quote in another forum regarding Kuk Sool Won...

KSW often seemed little more that TKD with joint locks. A little more focus on punching, but nearly everything was kicks, especially in the forms. While this isn't germane to your question, the forms always seemed rather "made up" to me. There was a focus on forms, but they seemed primarily meant for physical fitness. Very rarely did I get to a point in a form where I could see that the form was reinforcing a joint technique.

 

The school I studied at did a lot of grappling, but I think this was the instructor's interest, not an actual part of regular KSW curriculum. The grappling was good.

 

There was no effort at integrating the long range kicks, medium range punches, close range joint locks and the grappling. If you saw two KSW people sparring, it was like seeing any two people from a primarily kicking art going at it. I felt that there should be a point at where everything should begin to blend together and reinforce each other. That didn't happen.

 

How would you reply to this?

[Shorin Ryuu]

I've never taken KSW. One of my instructors trained with a group for several months when he was on a temporary duty and he said that it was worthwhile. I don't know whether that is a reflection on the school or the style.

[DLopez]

Somebody made this quote in another forum regarding Kuk Sool Won...

KSW often seemed little more that TKD with joint locks. A little more focus on punching, but nearly everything was kicks, especially in the forms. While this isn't germane to your question, the forms always seemed rather "made up" to me. There was a focus on forms, but they seemed primarily meant for physical fitness. Very rarely did I get to a point in a form where I could see that the form was reinforcing a joint technique.

 

The school I studied at did a lot of grappling, but I think this was the instructor's interest, not an actual part of regular KSW curriculum. The grappling was good.

 

There was no effort at integrating the long range kicks, medium range punches, close range joint locks and the grappling. If you saw two KSW people sparring, it was like seeing any two people from a primarily kicking art going at it. I felt that there should be a point at where everything should begin to blend together and reinforce each other. That didn't happen.

 

How would you reply to this?

 

Hmm...

 

How can more focus be on punching, but everything is kicks? That's a contradictory statement, and doesn't really make sense. However, I would argue that this person was not learning the forms correctly, if all they were doing was focusing on their kicks.

 

All of our forms have far more punches and chops than kicks in them, so I'm not sure how they can draw the conclusion the forms are mostly kicks. It sure brings doubts as to whether this person really learned an entire form at all. KSW forms do not just increase your physical fitness, but like all forms in every martial art are designed to do, they increase your balance, and drill in the proper punching and kicking techniques.

 

As far as the forms seeming "made up"... All forms in every martial art were "made up" by someone. What more can I say?

 

Now, one reason the forms do not include techniques, is because the forms are a solitary excercise, and the techniques require a partner. Our joint lock techniques get their own special attention and time for practicing those with a partner. In fact, our dojang has separate days dedicated to training in either the forms or the techniques.

 

As far as sparring in Kuk Sool Won goes, yes it is just point sparring. We simply do not include the joint locks and throws, simply because they are pretty brutal. They're designed to cause much pain, and injury can easily happen unless performed under control. I would say that if the techniques were allowed in sparring, then only the higher level ranks would probably be allowed as they should have more control. Is that a bad thing? Some might think so, but like I mentioned before, there is not much emphasis placed on sparring, and it's competely optional if you wish to participate. But yes, with the limitations on sparring, it would look like TKD to someone just watching a sparring match.

 

The question of "Then, how do you know you've learned the techniques?" gets asked a lot. One of my fellow student's father is a Houston Police officer, and he related a story where he asked "how would he know he's ready" to apply what he learned at the academy, because they never used their training in "real life" situations before - it was always just practice. Basically, he said when the time came, all the drilling he did made it all seem automatic, and from that experience he knew it would be the same with KSW techniques. Another student who took a break for a year to go to Iraq, came back saying the same thing. He had several instances where he had to subdue some hostile, but unarmed civilians, and his KSW techniques were quite effective. He too echoed that when the time came to use them, they felt "automatic".

 

I'm sure there are going to always be those that say you won't "know it" until you practice it for real, but if I were to dislocate the shoulder or elbow of every fellow student just so I can practice the techniques "for real", there would eventually be no students left to "practice" on. Plus, I can't train if I'm injured either.

 

Hope that was helpful!

[Akima]

Go to the school and take a few classes before signing up. See if it's something you like.

 

The website has no information to base a decision on.

[DLopez]

Yes, thank you Akima! I've already suggested that to "cat".

 

BTW, is there any martial art out there that you would decide to take just by browsing their web site?

[Akima]

BTW, is there any martial art out there that you would decide to take just by browsing their web site?

 

No, But there a many that you can tell right off the bat are Mcdojo's.

 

If you really want to dig into the site.

 

Since there is no usefull information on the site, that could ba a bad sign. Not a red flag, but maybe a yellow flag.

 

Having a 13 year old who is a 2nd dan, that's a red flag, but since it's only one red flag, it's not enough to truly rule it a McDojo.

 

Now looking at that video you posted. That was funny, I needed a laugh, thanks

[DLopez]

Hey, I agree with you, Akima! How about that?!

 

In fact, I believe that is why "cat" is here asking about KSW, because they wanted more information on KSW than what was on that website.

 

I would never trust a website to give me all the information I needed to make a decision on which martial art to take, or which school to go to.

[Akima]

I think you can tell from a website if a school is a Bad place to look.

 

You can never tell if it's good, but you can rule one out.

[enigmatic_cat]

BTW, is there any martial art out there that you would decide to take just by browsing their web site?

 

Well, I live in a small city, and there are just two other martial arts dojos here. I can tell you for a fact (I've seen them both), that both are the sportier, McDojo type places.

 

The third option was Kuk Sool Won. I came here wanting to learn more about it from people who had already taken it, after I found the information on the official website, and the school's website lacking.

Since there is no usefull information on the site, that could ba a bad sign. Not a red flag, but maybe a yellow flag.

 

Having a 13 year old who is a 2nd dan, that's a red flag, but since it's only one red flag, it's not enough to truly rule it a McDojo.

 

Well, there was plenty of useful information on the site, but I'm the type of person who likes to know everything there is to know about, such as things they wouldn't possibly include on their website (such as detailed information from personal experience).