Muay Thai

[SevenStar]

And... I have seen many/most street and bar room fights that DID NOT end up on the ground.

 

you're late. We've already discussed this and various reasons why fights end up on the ground.

[SevenStar]

 

It is all about using the earth energy (the ground) for effective punching. When on the ground this energy can be utilized in a differente way then when standing up. Ask your sifu, he may enlighten you on the matter - or then he may not - I honestly don´t know.

 

I was hoping the discussion wouldn't go here... are you talking about "short power"? FWIW, I have never seen it, nor met anyone who can explain how to achieve it, although many claim to have it. I have always been skeptical of this.

[47MartialMan]

And... I have seen many/most street and bar room fights that DID NOT end up on the ground.

 

you're late. We've already discussed this and various reasons why fights end up on the ground.

 

Then this post is late and a re-hash

[wing chun kuen man]

DM,

 

I think you just put your finger on the problem. That "one interpretation" that you made was WRONG.

 

The notion of a "real kung fu guy" is as valid as the notion of a real karate guy or a real bjj guy. For real read authentic, not watered down, complete etc.

 

My "view" on most kung fu guys is also valid. From my own research most of the kung fu schools that I have looked at are either Mcdojos/kwoons or just glorified 'selfdefense' classes or both. That is, they lack the deep knowledge that is kung fu and as a result they lack essence as well. This "plague" is not exclusive to kung fu but also to karate as well I am sure other MA´s. I know that there are economic and financial "reasons" behind this phenomenom as mentioned by other members of the forum on other threads - but it EXISTS.

 

Many people who go to these schools will even learn some selfdefense skills and even know how to ´fight´ but wether they will have learnt KUNG FU is another story and maybe even for many of them that will be irrelevant because they will be happy with their newly acquired skills. THAT IS MY VIEW. And furthermore I would hold this view if the discussion was karate, an art that I don´t practice but which suffers from similar problems as kung fu .

 

Wether your school is good or authentic is not my problem, it may or it may not be. Actually I hope that it is. When I said "ask your sifu" he may or may not enlighten you on the matter I also added "I honestly don´t know" (which somehow you missed in your quote), meaning that I really don´t know, because I don´t know anything about him or your wing chun school, that is all. Him not telling you would not necessarilly mean that he does not know either. However, I don´t automatically discount the possibility that he might actually lack knowledge in the ground fighting aspects of wing chun as well, as I said before I HONESTLY don´t know.

 

I just don´t like it when you see implications that don´t exist.

 

As far as the ground fighting is concerned I think I have said what I had to say. I still suggest that you have a chat with your sifu and see what he has to say.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[wing chun kuen man]

Sevenstar,

 

Ground fighting techniques are not only limited to WC as you probably know dog boxing, some monkey and mantis styles are others that also use ground fighting techniques. I have also heard of other chinese wrestling styles.

 

As far as defending against takedowns are concerned some striking techniques that one might think would not work against takedowns do work when they are applied by experts and not someone who learnt them through forms and superficial application exercises. Here, I am still talking about EXPERTS, real ones. Many kung fu experts will also use devastating finger strike techniques to defend themselves against grapplers. Finger techniques that I am talking about take many years to master, that is I am not talking about some one with a couple of years of training and a "black belt" who can do 10 push ups on their fingers.

 

I will add that in my own sifus case in a friendly match situations he allows himself to be taken down and works on the ground using chin-na and wing chun- he is that confortable on the ground. His own wing chun training has involved a lot of groung training.

 

Where are the real kung fu experts? They are around. One just has to look for them and in many cases very hard. I found one, he is my sifu and I was extremely lucky. [ I have also found one in London where I will be moving soon to live for a couple of years]. I would add however that you are not likely to come across one in UFC and Vale Tudo arenas, it is a possibility one day maybe, but generally I would say that is not the nature of the beast.

 

As far as timespans are concerned I am 100% with you with MT and BJJ you will gain useable self defense skills quickly in comparison with kung fu. And of course for those who stick to them they have even more to offer in the longer term.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[wing chun kuen man]

Sevenstar,

 

I was not talking about short power. Just using the wing chun principles and still using the ground as your "base" to add power to your punches. One of the key factors is maintaining a very relaxed physical state, however there are other factors as well and I have still to learn them - as implied in a previous post, I ain´t no expert yet.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[47MartialMan]

Shuai Jiao is an ancient Chinese wrestling system. Some scholars believe this is one of many systems that influenced Japanese JJ

 

Seen many real fights JJ vs....half were lost.

 

It is not the art....it is the artist

[Drunken Monkey]

....if i seem like i keep jumping on you (which i have to admit i kinda am),

 

it's because i keep seeing people say things about a particular martial art (or family of martial arts) without actually knowing what they are talking about.

 

too many people make a generalised comment like

 

'stand up don't work against grappling'

 

'chinese styles don't work'

 

'most schools are mcdojos'

 

and then they make comments about how a certain style does something without actually knowing how/why it is really done.

 

i.e they use their 'uneducated' version of a move from a style and say it doesn't work.

 

when they haven't even taken a single step beyond their own school.

 

you say that there aren't many real kung fu schools out there but how many have you gone to see?

 

how many styles have you visited?

 

in how many countries?

 

i know there are mcdojo's and other 'franchises' out there and i think they really might outnumber 'real' schools

 

but

 

i won't make the general comment like it's hard to find a real school because in my experience, it isn't.

 

then, that might be because of where i live.

 

hope you understand what i mean....

 

anyway.

 

where abouts in london?

 

and

 

who do you intend to train with here?

[47MartialMan]

....if i seem like i keep jumping on you (which i have to admit i kinda am),

 

it's because i keep seeing people say things about a particular martial art (or family of martial arts) without actually knowing what they are talking about.

 

too many people make a generalised comment like

 

'stand up don't work against grappling'

 

'chinese styles don't work'

 

'most schools are mcdojos'

 

and then they make comments about how a certain style does something without actually knowing how/why it is really done.

 

i.e they use their 'uneducated' version of a move from a style and say it doesn't work.

 

when they haven't even taken a single step beyond their own school.

 

you say that there aren't many real kung fu schools out there but how many have you gone to see?

 

how many styles have you visited?

 

in how many countries?

 

i know there are mcdojo's and other 'franchises' out there and i think they really might outnumber 'real' schools

 

but

 

i won't make the general comment like it's hard to find a real school because in my experience, it isn't.

 

then, that might be because of where i live.

 

hope you understand what i mean....

 

anyway.

 

where abouts in london?

 

and

 

who do you intend to train with here?

 

Who are you writing to?

[wing chun kuen man]

47MartialMan,

 

I believe the post is aimed at me. However, it is also a general criticizm that he is making of various posts that have appeared in this forum.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man