CTpizzaboy Posted December 11, 2001 Share Posted December 11, 2001 Ah, the contraversity continues... Are we talking about real life situations or in the dojo and in the UFC, which is a tournament. The line must be drawn. I have never studied BJJ, and no one can deny its effectiveness in a tournament such as the UFC. However, the streets and the UFC are two different realms. In the UFC there are rules, so its a sport like any other sport(boxing, kick-boxing, Muay-thai boxing). But in real life there are no rules. An opponent might have a gun, knife or have friends with knifes and guns. Not to discredit how effective Rickson Gracie is as a street fighter or a BJJ master, but why go to the ground or concrete and prolong a fight. Instinctively, he would like to end the fight as quick as possible. In a real fight, nothing would be more effective than what is learn in the army or the marines. However, in real life there are no rules. What if we took a marine and pit him against a BJJ martial artist? Here's another hypothetical question. What if we pitted a Krav Maga artist(the most scientific art, according to what I've read) against a BJJ? My beef about the UFC is that its just a sport and people are making it more that it is. Whether BJJ is effective on the street is irrelavent, because this is a tournament. Ken Shamrock and other UFC are great athletes. The UFC have massive athletes. These are such great athletes that I would think twice before going hand to hand combat on the street. The UFC is a sport, but that is not to discredit how effective they are as martial artist. IF Ken Shamrock opened a school, I would be the first to sign up for class. The sayin "99% of fights go to the ground" is true, because most UFC matches go to the mat. Not much action. There should a rule against ground fights that stale. Hey, I paid for my pay-per-view and I want some action Dammit. Canh T.I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuayTB1 Posted December 11, 2001 Share Posted December 11, 2001 wow you people are crazy. thou are like the record lengh for the messages. everbody got aleats a full page of somthing to say. lol "Don't think!! Feel..." -Bruce Leehttps://www.muaythaiboxing.friendpages.comThis site is dumb but I made it so it is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChangWuJi Posted December 12, 2001 Author Share Posted December 12, 2001 On 2001-12-11 04:04, Angus wrote: Chang.... ergh.... i swear if i wasn't a sensei on this board.... I'm not gonna have a long winded response cos i'm really sick of saying the same thing over and over again to someone who has obviously made up their mind before trying an art. Rickson Gracie, of Gracie Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a master in action. He is literally a master. I think he's 7th dan or something. He has never been defeated with his style. Nobody has even come close to it before. I'm not for one style or the other... oh bugger it, whatever i write won't change your closed mind. >too annoyed to sign off my name as a courtesy< Does Sakuraba come to mind? And each Kung Fu system has Chinese wrestling, joint locks or Chi'n NA, as well as striking incorporated into it. So what I am saying is that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is not superior to any other style because each style or system has its strenghs and weaknesses. ALso have you ever seen an internal arts master? They are so quick so powerful, I mean your neck can be snapped so quickly it is beyond comprehension. "There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 Uhuh, riiiiight..... Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungfuwoo Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 its me again.. Anyone can spout off a percentage of how many fights go to the ground, I mean 14% of all people know this (ha, Simpsons are great . But, Like Bruce Lee said, along with countless other Martial artists, training in ANY martial art will better yourself-it is silly to say that one martial art is better than any other. Now take Rickson Gracie for an example, since he is knee deep in the controversy right now. Do u think that if he half-a$$ed his training that he would be as good as he is now? Definitley not. It was due to his determination at becoming a master at what he did to make him prevail. Now, to ChangWuJi, I am NOT trying to flame u for this, just givin you all an opinion of what I think. A lot of people can "snap your neck" in a blazingly quick manner, but he does NOT have to be an internal arts master, he could be some physcho that trains at that all of his life or whatever...ANYONE CAN HURT ANYONE ELSE ON THE STREET-EVEN WITHOUT ANY FORMAL TRAINING. Oh, and thank you KSN Doug. I'm goin home this week and I'm gonna resume my yin yang do training-time for me to test for them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tygersclaw Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 Just some thoughts that came to mind while reading this thread: For me the only thing I can predict in a fight is that I can't predict. Each encounter is different. There is no and never will be the ultimate style (especially not with the attitudes of so many practitioners). Grappling is effective but not the only way to win a fight. Going to the ground is possible but less than 99% chance. Not going to the ground is not a sign of being untrained. Certain BJJ practitioners are well known but not necessarily any superior or inferior to anyone else. Being undefeated merely means you have not fought everyone. UFC hypes to gain an audience and should not be taken too seriously. Crosstraining is often not necessary as many styles cover the bases it is up to the practitioner to develop and round out their knowledge. Forms are important in training and have much value to offer a true fighter. To dismiss anothers view weakens your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 Hey, tigersclaw... would u ming telling us what MA's u do? Angus Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTpizzaboy Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 Oh, now you done it tiger. You mention the word "forms" and "training" in the same sentence. To Angus, forms is just a waist of time. Here we go again... Canh T.I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanksohn Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 Hard to believe I have found a site and a thread that makes me long for the return of kungfu online forums. And I thought people were blind there. LOL I'll take empirical evidence over what I've been told without proof, thak you. Remember for over 1500 years after Aristotle people though objects fell at rates relative to their weight because they just believed what they were told. And no, NHB is not a real fight. But it's the closest thing that I've seen on video testing the effectiveness of various arts. Until we find ways to ressurect people and can hold fights on various terrains, with different weapons, against multiple opponents, and the things that worked in NHB suddenly fail, I'll take the lessons they've brought us and incorporate them into my training. And you keep telling yourself and your students that it's all bunk and any skilled person can escape any lock. The less people know about this stuff, the better I'll do if I have to fight for my life. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggy9 Posted December 12, 2001 Share Posted December 12, 2001 I figure it's time for me to join the controversy As far as im concerned, I'd rather not take any chances....In a fight it's my life which is at risk and i'd like to have the best chance possible to survive. I've heard the usual dispute on how effective certian arts are on the street ...Personally, I dont care. It really doesnt matter to me; what matters to me is that I can defend myself to the best possible means at the kickboxing range, the grappaling range and on the floor. Sure people may say that if youre a skilled artist you will never go to the floor e.t.c, but why take that risk...? As far I can see, I want to be ready for any possible situation. I want to have effective abilities to fight at any given time and any given place. I want to be able to counter any move, I want to be able to fight anyone...no matter how big, or what martial arting history. In truth, the only way I feel confident I can do that is by cross training. I dont care where the technique i employ comes from, as long as it works..... So to me, it doesnt matter even if 1% of fights go to the floor, because even if it is just 1% I want to know to fight on the floor...That's just me. Naturally I would like to play to my strengths and try to avoid the floor, but I want to be ready if and when I do. Like I said, In a fight it is my Life at risk...I want to minimise that risk and be prepared for absolutely anything; hence I cross train. Thats what I think; so let the criticism begin..lol Oh and just for the record Hank, I have 20-20 vision [ This Message was edited by: Jiggy9 on 2001-12-12 12:06 ] Shotokan Karate Black Belt ==Defend the path of Truth== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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