jiu-jitsu fighter Posted February 1, 2003 Posted February 1, 2003 jeffin that is probably the smartest comment i have ever heard someone say , ever. wooooooooo slow down kirves your stereotyping now, although good point p.s. kirves you should replace bjj guys with mixed martial artists ,that would be more accurate "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim"
Mr Heel Hook Posted February 1, 2003 Posted February 1, 2003 To many mute points...I think I will leave this thread alone. "A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. " -Rener Gracie-
omnifinite Posted February 1, 2003 Posted February 1, 2003 Argh! "Moot"! It's "moot"! 1st Dan HapkidoColored belts in Kempo and Jujitsu
Kirves Posted February 2, 2003 Posted February 2, 2003 wooooooooo slow down kirves your stereotyping now, although good point p.s. kirves you should replace bjj guys with mixed martial artists ,that would be more accurate Yeah, I earlier used "Vale Tudo guys" instead of BJJ for variety. Of course I'm stereotyping a bit but so are "they". They are saying that all TMA guys are bad because they aren't fighting in UFC. My point remains, if they were interested in fighting in UFC, maybe they would have chosen a different hobby, because TMA clubs don't really offer much training for such events. TMA clubs often focus on traditional stuff, because they're interested in that. Comparing TMA with modern Mixed Arts is comparing apples and oranges. You may be into one, the other, or both, but you should have the freedom of choise.
Ryuji Posted February 2, 2003 Posted February 2, 2003 Well, I do believe in my experience that 99% of fights do end up on the ground. But its also true 100% of them start standing. In, tournaments such as the UFC, Pride etc… I think it’s very effective and smart to, take the fight to the ground. For me anyway because I fell more comfortable at that level, But for street confrontations I would rather choose to be on my feat, for the following reasons 1) ground fighting is not effective for multiple opponents, its like playing two games at once 2) the possibility of getting stabbed at that range is very high, 3) wrestling on concrete is very painful, make sure you have some pants on. 4) You generally don’t want to wrestle somebody on the street, you want to knock him out, end it as quick as possible. But despite my opinions I still believe staying in the standing grappling range is better than kicking and punching range in any confrontation. for my body type anyway.
Kirves Posted February 2, 2003 Posted February 2, 2003 Well, I do believe in my experience that 99% of fights do end up on the ground. As I asked earlier (in this thread or some other, don't remember), what exactly does constitute a fight going to the ground? If I punch a guy and he falls, did the fight go to the ground (he did for sure, but the fight...?)? I have had some "encounters" on my line of work (security, I work both as a guard and as a body guard. Previously I have been 11 months as an MP.) and I have had one fight that I considered a "ground fight". Usually the fight result was decided while standing up. Either the other guy fell from a hit (I have only succeeded in this twice with a shin roundhouse kick to just-above-knee) or usually I took him down with a lock/hold i.e. I remained standing and he went down. All these "encounters" had the common denominator: the other guy went down, but I did not. So "in my experience 1% of fights go to the ground" if I only count the fight where we continued wrestling on ground, but if it counts that one of us went down, then "in my experience 99% of fights go to the ground". But of course, some people here say my statistics are screwed, because half of my "encounters" involved weapons (the least I have is a baton, and I use it when the "customer" uses something; a drug needle is the most common weapon I have had the "pleasure" of facing). I would say that fights between BJJ students usually go to the ground, fights between TKD students usually don't go to the ground and if a BJJ student fights a TKD student, it may go to the ground.
kenpo4life Posted February 3, 2003 Posted February 3, 2003 jiu-jitsu fighter, First of all, in response to your stuff, I DO respect the Gracies. My second teacher was a Gracie. I have learned from Royce, Royler, Vitor, Rodrigo Medeiros,Fabio Santos and more. I am saying that there marketing is suspect at BEST. In GIA I, there is a commentary that a man challenged Rickson on the beach. That man was Hugo Duarte. The story I heard from Marco Ruas was different. He told me that there were about 3 times as many bjj guys as Luta Livre guys. Hugo had mounted Rickson and was thrown off. Second in regards to bjj being a totally different art than judo, think again. The style of judo popular now is NOT the judo that Kano created, He even said so before he died. Check out kosen judo on the net. It will tell you all about that. Look into the old judo texts, like "Best judo" or judo in action" grappling techniques. The omo-plata, triangle, the guard sweeps. open and closed are all in judo moves. Like gene "Aranha" Simco told me once, bjj is nothing but old-school judo with a vale-tudo component. That is from the horses mouth. I can help you with some info if you want to research it yourself. If my survival means your total destruction, then so be it.
LOILOI44 Posted February 3, 2003 Posted February 3, 2003 Thanks for the info kenpo4life. I guess I wasn't that crazy or that incorrect in believing that most of the techniques in BJJ are also in Judo.
jiu-jitsu fighter Posted February 3, 2003 Posted February 3, 2003 they're in judo, yes, but the approach is different and theres alot of different techniques, but bjj did come from jujutsu and judo so why would it look the same? and not all the basics are the same only some, and not all the advanced stuff is the same, every bjj teacher i know has made up some of his own stuff, thats not the case with the judo teachers i have met, they say they stick with tradition and teach the techniques unchanged, but why not modify them if they will be more effective/efficient ? "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim"
Kensai Posted February 4, 2003 Posted February 4, 2003 Most good Judoka, CAN USE THE TECHNIQUES to there MOST EFFECTIVE abilities. Sorry was I shouting. I think judoka and the same goes for any style, moves slightly differently. So the movement always become personalised.
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