karate philosophy VS. female vanity.

[White Warlock]

Sounds great K4. Just wanted to say you brought up a good topic, which clearly posed a variety of issues with a myriad of perceptions attached. Hopefully other threads, stemming from these discussions, will arise.

[grey-saku]

hi all,

 

i am a young female who recently started to attend a suburban dojo

 

in my small community. i am new to martial arts and knew that it would be both a mental and physical challenge. i chose to enter it hoping i could better understand myself and improve my mental outlook.

 

i do believe that i am in good company at my dojo (many students show hard work and dedication), however, i feel like an outsider because i know most of the students feel as though i am nothing more than a vain female who wants to take part in karate simply as a novelty. i do wear make-up to class and am most always well dressed, but that is how i present myself everyday. i am struggling to re-evaluate my priorities and goals, and chose karate to help me with this. i notice that the other female students are not this way, they do not focus so much on there apperence. i've always been thought to take pride in what i look like, but does this go against the philosophies taught in karate? is it really so important that i change my mind set on beauty in order to focus more on my art form?

i guess it depends on whether you're trying to do this while you're training...theres absolutly nothing wrong in how you present yourself to others around you..while you're training you should be focused on training only, and nothing else...honestly i beleive maybe you're making more out of it than you need to...im sure you'll be fine...

[ineluki]

Late in this thread, but to add another point of view.

 

Based on my experience (one that is probably shared by the people in your dojo) those that wear make-up are very rarely serious about their training.

 

You may be one of the exceptions, but you may have to prove it first.

[P.A.L]

I think luckyboxer and jussi gave you straight forward and honest answers, simply you should not have make up or any extras in dojo.

 

last month after jujitsu class i saw some trace of make up on my gi very minimum but it was there anyway. I didn't like it but i didn't say anything to her or sensei as well , the girl is a very nice one and i have no problem with her now and later. I just gonna have to tolerate it .

[Kazuya]

C'mon guys, cool off, the only valid reason for not using it i have read so far is the fact that it may actually paint your gi.

 

Trying to look good at doing karate? trying to look better than the other women and trying to get some attention? Isn't it the same as we men buying expensive custom made deluxe "insert brand" gi's with a silk super thick black belt? After all athe only thing that matters is the technique, not how you look like. Last time i remember we judge karatekas for the technique and not for gi's or makeup.

 

No jewerly? Ok, it may hurt people. I ask: Can makeup hurt people? The most it can do is to leave some trace in your gi but... are not you going to wash it after training anyway?

 

She finishes working and then goes to the dojo, is natural she has to wear some makeup. We men don't use it but we use cologne because we want to smell good in the work. Should we take it away too just because other men think you are trying to get some attention from the female instructor?

 

Everybody is responsible for his own training, what the guy/girl on your left/right is doing is not of your concern. If you get distracted because of a girl then you are not paying enough attention to your own training and you should either take it seriously or come back when you are not puttin yourself at risk (read ahead). Is not fair to blame somebody for getting your attention when you "should" not be paying him/her attention in first place, i mean, a punch is coming at you: should you look at the floor/mirror/ceiling/fathers/somebody's makeup instead of the guy trying to punch you?

[Karategurl]

 

Hi everyone,

 

I couldn't agree with Kazuya more.

 

It doesn't matter what you wear or look like. All that matters is that you have strong spirit, and concentration on what you are doing. Just keep focused, and you will be all right. I know i wear make-up when i go to class. Only because i feel naked without it.

[Luckykboxer]

well let me put it this way then.

 

I have officially made sure that all the students in my school do not wear makeup, cologne, perfume, or jewelry. Men or Women.

 

problem solved here.

 

You can train how you want where you want, but if you are one of the 400+ students in my school, you will not be using that /shrug

 

simple solution

[SevenStar]

Isn't it the same as we men buying expensive custom made deluxe "insert brand" gi's with a silk super thick black belt?

 

we men? I don't have such desires... IMO, if a person feels so compelled to look good in class that they buy a flashier gi, then they need to re-evaluate the reasons why they are training.

 

as for clogne and perfume, you're right to an extent - it shouldn't distract you. BUT, you gotta remember, you're in a class setting with several students - what if one of them has allergic reactions?

 

No makeup is preferred, but seeing as people do come straight from work to the club, it's tolerable.

[Luckykboxer]

besides buying a better Gi doesnt mean its a different color, or its a shinier gi, it means its a heavier duty gi, or a gi that will last longer, or is more comofrtable, or allows the person to focus on the curriculuma dn no gi Problems...

 

buying better equipment isnt a show off its a bonus to allow you to train better.

 

adding make up adds nothing to the curriculum.

 

huge difference.

 

Its like saying that adding performance tires to your sports car is equivilant to wearing a silk jacket with yoru sports cars name on it...

 

not even the same universe in my opinon

[Kazuya]

I have officially made sure that all the students in my school do not wear makeup, cologne, perfume, or jewelry. Men or Women.

 

You can train how you want where you want, but if you are one of the 400+ students in my school, you will not be using that /shrug

 

It's ok. Its your dojo and these are your rules. That's what you offer and it's your opinion and the way you choose to lead your dojo. No problem there. Still i don't see how can makeup hurt somebody. If you are talking about distracting other people, well, they should be focusing in their training anyway, if they wanted to look at girls or "get distracted" by them then they should either look at a moviestars magazine or get out more often. They are going there to do karate not to look at each other.

 

Btw, if somebody happen to go to your dojo he needs to bring a soap with him to remove the cologne/parfume?

 

 

we men? I don't have such desires...

Neither do i. It was just a generalization made based in the actual place of the money industry in the karate world.

 

 

IMO, if a person feels so compelled to look good in class that they buy a flashier gi, then they need to re-evaluate the reasons why they are training.

Yes, karate can be an ego thing sometimes But i was refering to the fact that some guys see bad when a girl with makeup comes to the dojo while they (guys) spend insane amounts of money in their gi's becaue they want to look good and even then they dare to say the girl just wants to look good when doing karate.

 

 

as for clogne and perfume, you're right to an extent - it shouldn't distract you. BUT, you gotta remember, you're in a class setting with several students - what if one of them has allergic reactions?

You may be right but i have not seen such a reaction so far. Anyway, as instructors we should know the possible allergic and medic conditions of our students. If i were to have guy who i know is prone to have an allergic reaction when close to somebody using make up or cologne then i'd only refrain from pairing him up with somebody using it. They don't live in a bubble or a cave, they live in cities where every single girl is using makeup and every single man/women is using cologne. They take precautions to evade allergic reations. It could be the same in the dojo and problem solved.

No makeup is preferred, but seeing as people do come straight from work to the club, it's tolerable.

 

That's what i'm saying.

 

 

besides buying a better Gi doesnt mean its a different color, or its a shinier gi, it means its a heavier duty gi, or a gi that will last longer, or is more comofrtable, or allows the person to focus on the curriculuma dn no gi Problems...

 

buying better equipment isnt a show off its a bonus to allow you to train better.

 

Yes, and using makeup is not for show off, it's a bonus for the clients who visit you in your job. It's about presentation. Having little time to remove it is acceptable and if there is not time the last thing anybody should see is her makeup.. Instructors should be focusing on her technique, students should be focusing in how their kicks or punches are being executed, not how the girl in the left looks like.

 

What i meant in my original post was that there are people who buy gis just for the sake of showing off and they dare to complain when a girl is using make up with the showing off argument. Not everybody is like that but there are men like this certainly.

 

 

adding make up adds nothing to the curriculum.

Nor the heavy weight gi's or the more comfortable ones. What matters is technique not the gi. I could train in normal street clothes and have better technique than a guy with a heavy duty gi. Why can't a girl train with makeup and have better technique than a girl without makeup?

 

Should the instructor be distracted by my normal street clothes instead of my technique? Of course not. It's the same with makeup. Should the students be distracted by my normal street clothes? Again, of course not. It's the same with makeup.

 

I think we all should say it's a matter of preference. I prefer my dojo without girls with makeup... I don't care if makeup is used as long as they actually train... and so on and on. There are not valid excuses so far, it's just what we prefer. Why can't we state it like that?

 

 

Its like saying that adding performance tires to your sports car is equivilant to wearing a silk jacket with yoru sports cars name on it...

 

not even the same universe in my opinon.

 

In your analogy performance tires should give a better result in your overall experience while wearing a silk jacket is just well... clothes... which don't make your car better.

 

Makeup doesn't make your karate better. Does your gi do? I don't think so. I think your karate is your karate with or without a heavy/normal/canvas/expensive/cheap gi. Makeup, as wearing a gi is just something different to the overall karate experience. We just have accepted a gi as a part of karate that can't be taken away but even in the origins of karate, people would train in normal clothes. Can't girls train with makeup if it's not adding anything more than a gi is?

 

I can't see how buying a gi that will last longer will make you focus more in the curriculum as you said. Focus in curriculum can be done regardless of what you are wearing call it a gi, normal street clothes or even a very old and used gi. But we want to look good in our social circle name it work or karate club so we won't be wearing a very old or dirty gi. It's about presentation and looking acceptable to the eyes of the society. Can't girls try to look good in the same way with the "girls special added touch" as long as they train seriously?