karate philosophy VS. female vanity.

[White Warlock]

One tip would be to focus more on learning, and less on socializing. Your efforts to 'fit in' seem to be working against you, so stop trying so hard.

 

It is always important to remember the ultimate goal of whatever endeavor you enter into. In this case, it's to learn the martial arts, not to gain friends who happen to also study martial arts. If you remain focused on your goals, other things may, or may not, come from it all.

 

And, of course, follow the advice i tossed out earlier in this thread.

[Kamiya]

Being a female who has also worn makeup to the dojo once or twice, I'll give my feminist input.

 

I, like k4karate, also often attend karate class right after work, and so I'm often wearing makeup. (Usually for me it's just some eyeliner and eyeshadow.) I don't feel like I should be obligated to wash it all off before class. I usually just walk in, get into my dojo, and I'm ready to go! Is there anything wrong with that?

 

And as far as the whole "makeup rubbing off on people" thing, well, I just have to say we didn't have the air conditioning on in the dojo yesterday, so everyone's sweat was getting all over the equipment we were using. Personally I would find makeup slightly less gross than the perspiration of others.

 

::end bi*chy feminist rant::

[Sauzin]

i don't however understand why being well-groomed would signify that i am looking for a mate. as i stated before, my mother raised me to be very japanese, even old ladies put in a big effort to look nice at all times,

 

and not for the purpose of looking for a mate. but this brings up an interesting subject, since i am studying karate in north america and not japan, should i change the way i look and dress at my dojo to respect the less fashionable north american values of dedication?

 

Oh man, did any one catch that "less fashionable" statement. Ouch! Well here's my view on it. First, Go-ju ryu originated from Okinawa. When Okinawans trained, especially when I was on the island, looking good wasn't an issue. Sure the gi's were white and everyone entered well groomed, but when class started, image was not even a factor. These guys were what I like to call "hard core". Fashion was for outside the dojo. There is no reason in the world you can't look good outside the dojo. If fashion is you're thing, then great. But the moment you enter that dojo, that focus should stay at the door.

 

This might sound harsh, but I don't mean it to be. In the dojo people learn to focus on perfecting an art that is very internal in nature. They learn to define self worth by something other then image or perception. In karate you shouldn't care about society, what you're mother taught you, what politician should be president, or how you're doing at you're job. You are there to perfect your art, and maybe help someone else do the same along the way. Anything else is a distraction inside the dojo. Outside, all those things will be waiting patiently for when you are done.

 

Respectfully,

 

-Paul

[aefibird]

Personally I would find makeup slightly less gross than the perspiration of others.

 

Well, to be honest I'm not fussed about having either of them on me or my gi... but after the colour my gi got during yesterdays training session i could have rolled in a tin of paint or a puddle of mud and it wouldn't have made any difference.

 

We were doing a little grappling yesterday, but there were too many students and not enough mats for all of us. Guess who had to practice on the wooden floor instead of a nice comfy mat??

 

I felt sorry for my partner yesterday, a yellow belt. First time doing any karate grappling techniques and not only does she end up being paired up with a dan grade, but without a mat too! lol.

 

We also ended up in the recently-cleared equipment corner (my instructor has finally had a clear up and put the equipment into lockers in the changing rooms to give us more space in the dojo), which was a bit dusty, so my gi was various shades of grey and brown by the time we'd finished training.

 

I'd also dyed my hair the night before (a fetching shade of purpley-black). I was sweating so much that some of the dye ran out of my hair and onto my gi collar, so as well as being grey and brown, it was grey and brown with purple-black streaks!

 

The hair-dyed gi - all the rage this season dontcha know.

[Kamiya]

Oooh, sounds attractive aefibird.

 

Someone made a comment before about how people wear makeup to attract members of the opposite sex. And how makeup could be distracting to the boys in the dojo.

 

Well, I have two problems with this (and that's not including the statement about why women wear makeup, which I would also be happy to debate, but not at the moment. )

 

First of all, if a woman is attractive, guys are going to check her out, makeup or no makeup. I really think makeup has very little to do with what guys find attractive, in fact many guys find LESS makeup more attractive. And if a girl in the dojo has a nice figure, well forget it. What's she supposed to to, gain 30 pounds and get surgery to make her face unattractive just to stop boys in the dojo from checking her out?

 

Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree with what CloudDragon said earlier. If the boys are distracted by the cute girl in the dojo, they need to be working more on their priorities and concentration skills.

 

::End feminist rant #2::

 

(I'm sorry, I'm not this much of a bi*ch, really!!! )

[aefibird]

Oooh, sounds attractive aefibird.

 

Yes, I looked a dream in my gi last night at training, and even more so at class tonight.

 

I had to wear the same gi again (no time to wash it in between, too), so it really smelt and had gone all crusty and manky.

 

It felt like someone had died in it and then been resurrected again.

 

Mmm, nice thought there!

 

Hope none of you were eating whilst reading that!

[Kamiya]

::sniff...sniff::

 

Wash that thing already aefibird! I can smell you all the way from across the Atlantic and half the US!

 

I shouldn't talk...I didn't wash my gi till about 3 weeks into karate. I had just been leaving it my car, and then one day my mom was moving my car and later commented that my gi was smelling up the car.

 

Yeah, I'm a slob.

[White Warlock]

First of all, if a woman is attractive, guys are going to check her out, makeup or no makeup. I really think makeup has very little to do with what guys find attractive, in fact many guys find LESS makeup more attractive. And if a girl in the dojo has a nice figure, well forget it. What's she supposed to to, gain 30 pounds and get surgery to make her face unattractive just to stop boys in the dojo from checking her out?

You misinterpreted entirely what i was inferring.

 

Attractive is attractive, and that will obviously have to be something men and women will need to gain a bit of composure over. However, makeup and grooming are additions. They are'intentional' actions, committed primarily to attract people of the opposite sex, mostly to highlight those characteristics of an individual that make them more 'sexually' appealing.

 

There are some very good studies on this subject and much of this i hesitate to discuss here, due to the somewhat graphic representations. Part of the problem is, such activities are universal nowadays, with men and women alike working daily to one-up the other. And with this, people tend to 'accept' and 'forget' why it is they are doing it in the first place.

 

Instead of just doing things... maybe time should be taken to understand 'why.' Society is riddled with commercialization and messages are thrown out every day indicating what is attractive, what is beautiful, and what you need to buy to make yourself more attractive or more beautiful. In the end, we are dealing with the call of nature to procreate. So very few are immune to this, but most everyone ignores such influences in our daily lives.

 

Turn on the TV, watch the alluring eyes of the woman (eyeliner, eyeshadow). She winks at you (colored eyelid to emphasize the commission of a 'come-on,' not to mention a reiteration of femininity since women blink almost twice as often as men), then turns her head slightly and blushes (a little highlighting blush helps to emphasize this). She reachs to her wine glass, her long painted fingernails carefully clasping the neck (long to indicate dependency, painted to emphasize this dependency), while her sultry lips (painted a color similar to that of a certain other orifice) catch the lip of the glass and she drinks, then pulls away, leaving an imprint from her lipstick.

 

And this all, was a wine commercial.

[Luckykboxer]

First of all, if a woman is attractive, guys are going to check her out, makeup or no makeup. I really think makeup has very little to do with what guys find attractive, in fact many guys find LESS makeup more attractive. And if a girl in the dojo has a nice figure, well forget it. What's she supposed to to, gain 30 pounds and get surgery to make her face unattractive just to stop boys in the dojo from checking her out?

 

Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree with what CloudDragon said earlier. If the boys are distracted by the cute girl in the dojo, they need to be working more on their priorities and concentration skills.

 

there is a huge difference from an attractive woman working out in the Dojo, and a woman trying to attract others in the dojo.

 

From my experience, and i have seen both, I find it hard to believe that someone would get a hard time just because they were attractive and were trying to fit in. Most likely as I have seen firsthand in the past, if someone is getting a hard time its because they are doing their own thing and creating a spectacle and pulling attention from what it should be on.

 

I am not going to be a hard case here, but I have to say that I am surprised at what i am hearing...

 

I see your cute little quote at the bottom that says feminist rant etc.etc..

 

thats all good, but what we are talking about isnt a feminist issue.

 

Its a courtesy issue in my opinion, I dont wear my cologne to class, even though its John Varvatos a fairly popular cologne.

 

I dont wear my ring to class, as i dont want to injure anyone.

 

I dont wear dirty clothes to class, as i dont want to offend someones senses.

 

I take care of myself and make sure im clean and have trimmed toenails etc, so I dont offend or hurt or distract anyone.

 

I dont try to attract the women in my classes as I am not there to date im there to learn.

 

I dont disrupt the class, as I dont want to take away from mine or anyone elses learning.

 

I guess there is just too many selfish people in the world that are so worried about themselves that they cant bother themselves to think of others.

 

Its one thing if you talk to people or there is a general consensus among the group that it is ok to wear makeup.

 

It is entirely different to walk into an established group of people and expect them to adapt to you.

 

I have always had an issue with this.

 

how does the saying go.....

 

When in Rome do as the Romans do?

[Kamiya]

I guess when I say "feminist" rant, what I really mean is defending a woman's right to wear or not wear makeup wherever she wants. Perhaps I misused the word in this case, but...well, there it is.

 

I see your point about the difference between attracting and *trying* to attract, but I guess I wasn't really talking about someone who *tries* to attract others. I'm just thinking about a woman (like myself, oftentimes) who gets to the dojo right from work (I can't stress this "right from work" thing enough ^_^) and doesn't feel like she has to make a point to scrub her face first.

 

I'm never thinking, oh, I'll wear makeup to the dojo to attract others. I don't even THINK of it at all! I put that makeup on like 10 hours ago, it's the last thing on my mind!

 

But, really, I'm not trying to get people angry here. I'm partly just debating for the sake of debate, but on the other hand, I DO occasionally have makeup on in karate class. So, I have to stick up for myself here. ^_^