Flashy techniques

[White Warlock]

SS touches the point that is at the crux of these discussions.

 

Let's face it, most of us participating in this discussion actually know the difference between what works and what's Showboatin' Annie. But, he who walks off the street, after watching Jet Li take out 3,000 opponents in five minutes of exhilarating Blow Chunks Fu, can't see the trees for the forest. They're not able to differentiate, and thus are ripe for the picking by those flash schools that harvest them with consumnate ease.

 

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. But, having been in the graphics industry, i know full well that a picture is actually a great means to deceive. What looks good, isn't necessarily good, and if you place what looks good in a 'test tube' environment, where these techniques of flash are allowed to display themselves like peacocks at the zoo, then you're going to have tons of people get snookered into believing they're actually learning a viable martial art system.

 

Catch is, you put that peacock into a lion's den... and lunch be served.

 

So, to close. If the student's goals are being met, that's great. But, in this day and age, it's usually the instructor's goals that are being met.

[delta1]

If the student's goals are being met, that's great. But, in this day and age, it's usually the instructor's goals that are being met.

 

You guys are just determined to make this difficult!

 

Again, sooner or later the student will figure it out. Once you are into the ma's and are exposed to more ideas and more of what's out there, if he isn't satisfied he'll start looking. Some may become disillusioned and leave, which is too bad. Others may learn the hard way, which is angering but life's like that. But many will go on to find what they truly enjoy or need. And, let's face it, a lot of the people in the McSD schools are more than happy to be fooled. I just wouldn't be all that thrilled to train with them any how, so let them stay where they are instead of ruining a good school.

 

I agree with WW & SS both, to a point. But I just don't think the martial arts are doomed because every school doesn't beat each other black and blue. Heck, the way things are going lately, I may be the one that's doomed. But I still enjoy a good thump-fest once in a while. To each his own!

[aefibird]

People will usually find what they want.

 

Unfortunately, people don't always know what they want - especially the bloke in the street who has never done MA before in his life.

 

I was having a similar discussion with my mum & dad a couple of weeks back.

 

My dad used to train in Judo & JuJutsu (until injury prevented him from continuing) and he knows about shyster schools and schools that only offer flash, even if the instructor believes that what they're doing is right and is good MA.

 

 

 

My mum (bless her...) couldn't seem to grasp the fact that not all MA schools actually taught MA and that some are (to use SS's phrase)more like 'gymnastics-do'. She kept saying stuff like "but, if it says karate club then they must teach karate, right?"

 

If my mum - who has had quite a bit of exposure to MA, even though she has never trained in one - believes that all MA schools and instructors are the same, then how much more must a regular person in the street think that as well?

 

If I'd never done MA before and I walked into a karate dojo (I'll use karate as an example, 'cos it's my main art) that concentrated on jazzed-up competition kata and flashy techniques for tournaments, but actually believed that what they were doing was 'real' or 'traditional' karate then I as a student would also form this impression. I'd end up thinking that all karate dojo's were the same as that one and all concentrated on flashy techniques.

[delta1]

Unfortunately, people don't always know what they want ...

 

Et tu, aefibird?

 

I give up! I yield the point. You guys win.

 

But I'm still not going to loose any sleep over the state of martial arts in the West!

[White Warlock]

let's face it, a lot of the people in the McSD schools are more than happy to be fooled.

I would disagree with this. They are more than happy to believe, but not necessarily happy to be fooled. Also, i think you're projecting your intelligence as a national standard. The thing is, you're quite a bit smarter than the Average Joe.

Again, sooner or later the student will figure it out. Once you are into the ma's and are exposed to more ideas and more of what's out there, if he isn't satisfied he'll start looking. Some may become disillusioned and leave, which is too bad.

Yeah, i think that's the bite though. it's not "some may become disillusioned and leave," it's most. It is very disheartening to have spent lots of money and many years studying a system, only to be handed your * in the street by a punk who looks like he would have difficulty getting up in the morning.

 

I once tutored this teen who spent four years studying at a Mcdojo. He went as high as brown belt, but because his mom was having financial problems, he was never able to pay for the black belt test (a $450 cost, upfront, with additional fees). Anyway, on my first private session with him, i asked him to attack me... and i stood there blocking everything he threw at me... with one hand to my side. I had only a few a sessions with him before he discontinued training. He realized then that he had pretty much wasted his time with the last four years and so he decided to pursue flash over function... just to justify all that time and expense.

 

Anyway, to make it short, he started watching movies so he could imitate all the flash... but still held onto a degree of false confidence and got himself into a few fights, where he was handed his *. His path is a common one.

[Rotten Head Fok]

I worry about the statement it makes, I too lean more towards tradition. What most martial arts styles were created for was to cripple, mame, or kill. They(flashy, crazy stikes) look very nice to watch, but I have much more respect for a simple mastered block, kick, or punch. They may not look "flashy" but time has proven they get the job done, no questions asked.

 

Don't think I don't appreciate any ability capable of a body in motion, the Peking Opera leaves me in Awe ! but a solid foundation generating power thru the waist and hips delivered by way of a clinched fist thru an opponent is what I would rather have people focused on.( just my opinion)

[White Warlock]

I too lean more towards tradition

I think it's important to mention, at this time, that much of the flash was actually created centuries ago. Bear with me as i give a Reader's Digest version of things.

 

In China, instructors sometimes had to compete for housing, if you will. To gain entry into a noble's home, and be given the 'lifetime' job of instructing a noble's son (possibly the noble himself, or maybe his personal guard), prospective instructors would put up shows in the town square or market area. Sometimes these shows would be posed in the noble's courtyard, by invitation.

 

Anyway, in order to impress the nobles, they often had to present 'flashy' displays. It was only sometimes that they actually had to physically compete against other prospective instructors (or the apprentices of such). These uncommon competitions helped birth many of the 'surprise-type' attacks that are unique to various kung fu systems.

 

Jumping to the future...

 

After the Boxer Rebellion, martial arts was outlawed in China (as it was already in many outlying Asian nations). Only officers, soldiers, and those that held special title were allowed to practice it. However, the flashy was maintained in a relatively new form... that of the 'official wushu.' Wushu* (which is actually the appropriate name for a martial art in China, as opposed to kung fu which means something altogether different) was later encouraged as a national art. However, wushu contains almost no functional value which, btw, is the reason it was encouraged. Tai Chi* was also encouraged for similar reasons except, instead of flash and display, it was health-oriented activity for the elderly.

 

* by all means refute their applicability if inclined, but please do so in a different thread, so as not to derail this one.

Edited July 17, 2004 by White Warlock

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I had never heard that before WW...thanks for the info. Does that only pertain to the Chinese systems, or the Okinawan/Japanese systems as well?

[White Warlock]

Only the Chinese systems. The Japanese/Okinawan history is quite different in this regard, although still interesting in its own, demented way.

 

You'll also note that the Japanese/Okinawan styles have far less flash (and surprise techniques). An example of differences in societies encouraging different things.

[delta1]

Also, i think you're projecting your intelligence as a national standard. The thing is, you're quite a bit smarter than the Average Joe.

 

Well, I don't know whether to feel better about that, or feel it is a really sad commentary on our national condition (international if you include the average poster here). A guy could get really depressed hanging around you lott!

 

:looks around: :mutters:'there's got to be something better than Prozac...'