aefibird Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 In a course I went on a couple of weeks ago we were doing the application for Bassai Sho. For the part straight after the opening move (the bit where you turn into back stance and hold out your hands as if holding a staff) I've heard 2 main applications for this. The first is that you are defending against a strike by blocking with a staff in your hand and the second is that you are defending against an attack by a staff by actually grabbing the staff. Which application do people tend to practice/work on in their clubs? Which do you prefer? "Was it really worth it? Only time and death may ever tell..." The Beautiful South - The Rose of My CologneSheffield Steelers!
G95champ Posted July 1, 2004 Posted July 1, 2004 Since Shotokan prides itself on the use of NO weapons I would say the second. You are taking the staff from the attacker. Just like in Jittie. but both can and do apply and prob. many others. Ive only been working Bassai Sho about 4 months now so I dont have much insight on it at this time lol. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
renketsu Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 I dont know about anyone else but I wouldnt want to try stopping someone hitting me on the head with a bo by catching it - I would imagine that would break several bones in your hands. I favour the idea of using weapons to defend against weapons and have been taught a similar move to that one in Bassai Sho when I trained in kobujitsu. Jutte is another contentious kata... I pasted this before showing Jutte being done using a bo and it looks pretty much perfect to me (yep I've tried it)... the idea behind using open handed moves (versions of weapons moves) to hide the fact that you are training to use weapons sounds feasible. Just my opinion. Andy. Andy Wilkinson (Sandan)Renketsu Karate Club Senior Instructor(http://www.renketsu.org.uk)
Jade Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 I practiced this kata rarely...actually i always see it performed by other higher ranks...but in my point of view...if you think about the movement you do with the staff....to me, it's more reasonable the second application of the kata.... I don't know...that's only my opinion...i might be wrong and probably we never know what's the true application of it since katas are true mysteries... "With a bit of imagination, kata can be deadly." - Hidy Ochiai
aefibird Posted July 2, 2004 Author Posted July 2, 2004 Thanks for the link Renketsu - interesting to see a 'weaponless' kata done as a weapons form. I prefer the idea of Bassai Sho being a weapon kata and the application being that you're blocking with a staff. I agree with the point about catching a staff - I certainly wouldn't like to try it! Hey, it's not my application, though, just one I was shown by a senior Dan grade. "Was it really worth it? Only time and death may ever tell..." The Beautiful South - The Rose of My CologneSheffield Steelers!
G95champ Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 I don't know one could catch a staff that way. I mean its not something you want to do a lot but I think its the idea of taking it away more so than catching it. EX both of you have your hands on it and you pull it away from him. Reguardless of that we all know many Shotokan kata look as though they need a weapon. I too have done Jitte with a Bo and as pointed out above it dose flow pretty well but I do not think it is a Bo kata. I have also done all the Heian with a Bo, Numchurck and Sword. Some were a reach but with work you could make the same argument. Point is Shotokan is a empty hand style. The beauty of Shotokan as I have stated in MANY other posts is it has everything in it but lots are hidden. Such as the weapons aspect we are talking about here. The Grappeling as in the Tekki Kata, the wrist locks and throws as in many higher kata such as Kanku Sho and so on. Shotokan is as close to being a complete style as any other MA IMO. But unlike a lot of OTHER styles you have to uncover the hidden aspects. Remember Funakoshi had 2 great teachers and spent much time with Kano the Judo Master. Its not all low stances and lunge punches. lol (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
aefibird Posted July 3, 2004 Author Posted July 3, 2004 Its not all low stances and lunge punches. lol Amen to that! Just out of interest, when you did the Heian kata with nunchaku, was it with 1 set ot 2? You've given me a bit of inspiration there - I'll have to go and try to see how they work with weapons. Hmm, interesting! "Was it really worth it? Only time and death may ever tell..." The Beautiful South - The Rose of My CologneSheffield Steelers!
G95champ Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 One lol. I can't do 2 lol. Much to dangerous. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
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