Drunken Monkey Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 ..traditionally, there were NO belts beyond white (learning the basics) and black (finished learning the basics). black belt was regarded as a begining rather than an end this is exactly my point. the problem isn't with what the black belt represents. the problem is with what the layman believes, which is the view as expressed by the article; that a black belt means you are a good fighter. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
wing chun kuen man Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 What I am trying to say is that if one earns a black belt in a legitimate MA school, with a legitimate sensei or instructor then this belt WOULD have a meaning and this meaning would include the fact that the person was a good fighter. The view that all (or even most) black belts are good fighters would hold weight if in our society if black belts were not given out like candies. And yes there are people who think that if you have a bb then you are a good fighter. Any ignorance on their part does not stem from over estimating the capabilities of black belt holders but rather the overestimating of the standards of todays martial arts schools. Here in Rio, if you say that you are a BJJ black belt , people assume, and most of the time correctly, that you are anything from a good to lethal fighter. The same is true if the case is any other martial art, that is just the image that many people in Brazil have of black belt holders. The same was true when I was living in London, if someone said that they had a black belt in some martial art people thought wow he must be good. Of course the issue is not the belt however, it is where and how one earns it. And I have mentioned the real problem in a previous post. Maybe the layman´s view that black belt holders are good fighters is wrong, but not because of their assumption that black belts are dangerous people rather in the assumption that all black belt holders have actually EARNED the belts that they so proudly wear. If a black belt is earned as a result of years of sweat, tears and sacrifice, then and only then it means something, including the fact that the belt holder is a good fighter. However, if a black belt is earned because of regular attendance in a mediocre dojo then yes it "coud be trouble". Wing Chun Kuen Man Real traditional martial arts training is difficult to find.....most dojos in the west are Mcdojos....some are better and some are worst....but they are what they are....do you train in one?
delta1 Posted July 2, 2004 Posted July 2, 2004 I love it when I here people talking about how tough someone must be because they are a “Black Belt.” The artical made some good points. Unfortunately, it made two critical errors. First, it took the common idea, or public perception, that a black belt is a trained bad ***, and transferred it to the martial artist, who should know better. And it made this jump without establishing a logical connection. Second, after making the above assumption, the artical goes on to tell how the black belt will in all probability get his *** handed to him on the street because he can't fight. In actuality, it is not his ability to fight that got him in trouble, but his arrogance and false pride. Anyone with this attitude, no matter how hard or realistic they train, will eventually get in over their head. One of the things that hard contact sparing teaches you best is that there are no certainties, no guarantees, nothing that works 100%, and no one that is invincable. Besides that, 'on the street' you don't spar. You end it suddenly, violently and decisively. The longer it goes, the greater your chances of getting seriously hurt. But the best fight in that scenario is no fight, the one that is won with avoidance or deescalation skills. If there are no guarantees on the mat, there are sure not any outside the school doors! Freedom isn't free!
White Warlock Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 Agree with all points Delta1 made. Even the one he said about me being some sort of uber stud. "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
battousai16 Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 wing chun kuen man- y'know, i gotta' say, after being in italy for a week and having pizza all day, every day, all different kinds, i'd have to say the best pizza i've ever had was still made right here in Madison, WI (long live Pizan's!), even if pizza is an italian food. i'm sure okinawa has its fair share of mcdojos. DM is always willing to point out the vast amount in china. i don't think it's fair to assume the okinawan black belt will be the better fighter every time. i've been reading this thread for awhile; good points guys. "I hear you can kill 200 men and play a mean six string at the same time..."-Six String Samurai
battousai16 Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 blast! i thought the uber stud comment was directed at me! ah well... "I hear you can kill 200 men and play a mean six string at the same time..."-Six String Samurai
wing chun kuen man Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 battousai16, Hello. I do get your point, but no, no, no, when I made my point I did not mean that an Okinawan black belt would win every time, I said there are exceptions, what I meant was that he would win on average. Probably there are Mc dojos in Okinawa but what we have in the west is a plague of Mcdojos and black belts who could not fight their way out of a paper back. I also know there are Mcdojos or more correctly Mckwoons in China and a lot of them cater to martial tourists who learn some fancy forms and go back to their own countries and open up their own Dimmak academies......LOL. However, you are likely to get better and more authentic instruction when you train kung fu in a real kung fu school/temple in China than in the U.S. or Europe. I suppose that the same goes for anyone who wants to learn to play american football. He will find good instruction around the world but he is more likely to find the best in the U.S. On the same note a good (black belt) american football team from France is more likely to loose than win, against a good(black belt) american football team from the US, and that is on average. Pizzas. Wether one likes a certain pizza is a matter of taste. But if you are a badly trained black belt who can´t fight, then you are a badly trained black belt who cannot fight. There is no question of taste, opinion or aroma etc. By the way, about your favorite pizza in Madison WI, is it made by italians or by non italians? Wing Chun Kuen Man Real traditional martial arts training is difficult to find.....most dojos in the west are Mcdojos....some are better and some are worst....but they are what they are....do you train in one?
White Warlock Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 And once again a thread is hijacked. So... anyone hungry for a Big Mac? "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
battousai16 Posted July 3, 2004 Posted July 3, 2004 he's an american sorry, i didn't mean to hijack anything, i just thought it would help clarify my point. "I hear you can kill 200 men and play a mean six string at the same time..."-Six String Samurai
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now