a must read article "why a black belt could be trouble&

[chylaxin]

To prove my thesis. Why else? You all said it never happens and I went out and proved it in my area. Many of you made a generalization saying O I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT and well in the one day I told a few people and the first thing they said is wow he must be tough. Another thing is whitewarlock I didn't dismis all that you said. I wrote in that I doubt the article wished to start a contact vs noncontact war, ect I already posted what I said before I don't wish to keep repeating.

[Drunken Monkey]

....and who did you go and tell?

 

and how did you tell them?

 

did you just go up to random strangers and say 'my sensei's a black belt?'.

 

how did the topic come up?

 

did you bring up the topic of martial arts?

 

in most cases, if you present that kind of information, it is almost always going to be taken as some sort of brag, even if you don't intend it to be.

 

how else are they going to respond?

 

they don't want to offend so the obvious answer to 'my sensei's a black belt' is going to be along the lines of 'oh i guess must be good then'.

 

Many of you made a generalization saying O I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT

 

i don't recall anyone saying that.

 

what i do recall, is that we all agree that the article is too general.

 

you mention some (or is it all?) of your local tkd black belts

 

(just wondering, how do you know they are all tkd and all black belts?)

 

have an ego thing going on.

 

and then you change your direction slightly and then say that guys who don't train for fighting should realise their 'limitations' as it were.

 

my question here is that how many 'sport guys' actually think they are world class fighters?

 

don't you think the guys who practise their 540s know that it can't really be used?

 

but then to judge them ALL on the basis that 'they do sports, they can't fight' is in my opinion, dumb.

 

sports is one aspect.

 

how do you know they can't fight?

 

(or how do you know they think they can fight?)

 

someone else has said it but the only people who hold the view that a black belt MUST = a good fighter are people who do not participate in the martial arts.

 

that is where the issue lies.

 

is it a problem with what the black belt represents

 

or

 

is it a problem with what people think a black belt represents?

 

which is the solution?

 

make sure that black belts can fight?

 

or

 

make sure people (who don't train) understand what a black belt represents?

 

y'know, the more you post, the more you sound like a kid on a 'my dad knows better than your dad' mission.

[Ravencroft]

Wow this is turning into a pretty heated topic. I personally dont think that the belts mean anything at all its just the training u earned to get that belt. i mean i dont claim to be particularly skilled or any sort of tough guy, but ive full contact sparred a couple of tae kwan do blackbelts(point being that they would naturally be better at it because TKD today is more sport oriented)and i was amazed at some of the different skill levels. some would handle themselves very well in different situations yet some when i would test them by crowding them and boxing them they did exactly what i had hoped...they panicked and started kicking. point being that it all depends on the person, on the instruction as well but ultimately on the person. a belt to me means only status, pride, and respect, not at all about skill. when you see a black belt who is lazy and their technique is poor(which u see many times in kids) then u ask why are they a black belt...even if they are just a kid if the the technique isnt right then they shouldnt be a black belt. but anywho back on topic(just my little rant) dont be concerned about belts because they cant prove your skill only ur ego.

[Ravencroft]

Wow this is turning into a pretty heated topic. I personally dont think that the belts mean anything at all its just the training u earned to get that belt. i mean i dont claim to be particularly skilled or any sort of tough guy, but ive full contact sparred a couple of tae kwan do blackbelts(point being that they would naturally be better at it because TKD today is more sport oriented)and i was amazed at some of the different skill levels. some would handle themselves very well in different situations yet some when i would test them by crowding them and boxing them they did exactly what i had hoped...they panicked and started kicking. point being that it all depends on the person, on the instruction as well but ultimately on the person. a belt to me means only status, pride, and respect, not at all about skill. when you see a black belt who is lazy and their technique is poor(which u see many times in kids) then u ask why are they a black belt...even if they are just a kid if the the technique isnt right then they shouldnt be a black belt. but anywho back on topic(just my little rant) dont be concerned about belts because they cant prove your skill only ur ego.

[Ravencroft]

Wow this is turning into a pretty heated topic. I personally dont think that the belts mean anything at all its just the training u earned to get that belt. i mean i dont claim to be particularly skilled or any sort of tough guy, but ive full contact sparred a couple of tae kwan do blackbelts(point being that they would naturally be better at it because TKD today is more sport oriented)and i was amazed at some of the different skill levels. some would handle themselves very well in different situations yet some when i would test them by crowding them and boxing them they did exactly what i had hoped...they panicked and started kicking. point being that it all depends on the person, on the instruction as well but ultimately on the person. a belt to me means only status, pride, and respect, not at all about skill. when you see a black belt who is lazy and their technique is poor(which u see many times in kids) then u ask why are they a black belt...even if they are just a kid if the the technique isnt right then they shouldnt be a black belt. but anywho back on topic(just my little rant) dont be concerned about belts because they cant prove your skill only ur ego.

[wing chun kuen man]

I think that the problem is simple, if EVERYONE who has a black belt has EARNED his black belt, we would not be having this discussion. I repeat, all martial artists at black belt level should be good fighters and if not they should not get their black belts. As everyone here knows, things are sadly different in the real world. I.E. YES, black belts could be trouble if you have received it in a mediocre dojo with a mediocre sensei (the majority, unfortunately), and NO, black belts could not be trouble if you have trained hard in a legitimate dojo/style with a legitimate sensei, who gives the belts to those who deserve it. You probably could not compare the fighting ability and spirit of a typical karate black belt from Okinawa to that of the fighting ability of a typical black belt from lets say Southern California. There would be exceptions in both cases, but I think we all know where we would put our money.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[Luckykboxer]

I will place my money on the best black belt fighters in Southern California over anywhere else in the world.

 

Southern California is a literal whos who of the martial arts world.

[Drunken Monkey]

i would put my money on the better fighter, whether he comes from okinawa or california,

 

or has a black belt or not....

 

which is my point.

 

and the point of many others.

 

to think that black belts from okinawa are going to better fighters than a black belt from a u.s school is just as dumb as thinking that a black belt automatically means a good fighter.

[wing chun kuen man]

Lucky Boxer,

 

I was not talking about the best black belts but a typical or lets say an average (random) black belt, there is a big difference. What I am saying is that the Mcdojo phenomenon has taken its toll on the MA standards, more so in the west than in the orient. And this has in turn effected the "performance" of the black belts, leading to some people thinking that "a black belt could be trouble". You probably would not have the same results that you had, if you were sparring with Okinawan black belts rather than the Californian ones. The way they train even today, is very different to the way we train in the west. Some of their training methods could even result in law suits here in the west.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

 

P.S. My money will be on the typical (or the best) black belts from Okinawa, wether or not they have won world titles or not.

[wing chun kuen man]

Drunken Monkey,

 

My post to luckyboxer should answer your post as well. Let me just stress that traditionally earning a black belt had had a meaning which meant that the holder would have effective fighting skills (among other "talents"), not the best in the world but effective and sometimes very good. At the same time as you will know, the black belt was regarded as a begining rather than an end. Nowadays in some parts of the west the black belt has lost its meaning. In the orient it has still kept most of its.....that is all I am trying to say....I am not trying to be dumb.

 

Would you put your money on an average ballet dancer from a Moscow dance school or an average ballet dancer from a dance school lets say in Bangladesh?

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man