a must read article "why a black belt could be trouble&

[wing chun kuen man]

I will just say this, the fact that you have a black belt SHOULD make you a good fighter, not necessarily invincible or a superman but a good fighter. If it does not, it is likely because you have not practiced a real martial art, but rather a watered down and/or Mcdojo type of MA. That is why sometimes one hears of black belts having their butts kicked in street fights, and then making the assumption that it was because the art itself does not work or because they did not practice bare knuckle contact sparring etc.

 

Wether one practices contact or non contact sparring becomes irrelevant if he or she is doing it in a bad dojo with a bad sensei/instructor. In my opinion this is the main reason why there are unworthy black belts who can´t fight. I do understand however that styles whose only motivation is non contact sport will be weak on the self defense side when compared with the traditional and no nonsense contact martial arts.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[Rotten Head Fok]

enough has been voiced, so I shall keep silent. But I did read the article and was unaware of a Black Belt Myth.

[chylaxin]

I don't know what planet you live on but in the one I'm in many local TKD black belts walk around thinking that they are the most dominant force. You are making a generalization as well when saying you've never heard of any one do that. Also the man who wrote the article is not a couch potato. He's a multi time regional, state, and national champion in arts such as jiu jitsu, koshiki, and full contact arts. So Warlock for you to say that made no sense at all. IF you look around at the numerous amount of black belts in the world you will see a good portion have a ora that they think they can do what they want. If you say you've NEVER seen it then you are ignoring whats out there.

[ckcko2004]

Why your black belt could get you in trouble –

 

 

 

I love it when I here people talking about how tough someone must be because they are a “Black Belt.” 2 words define a person as tough and deadly in the minds of the untrained and even many that do carry that rank. What is the truth in the myth of the “Black Belt”? For most there is no truth in a black belt equaling street lethal or even street safe.

 

In the United States the majority of martial arts practitioners practice non-contact systems or sportive systems. These ways are far removed from combat and street survival. In actuality these arts do more of a disservice then good in terms of reality combat outside of the dojo.

 

In the dojo we have rules and etiquette. We care about our partner’s safety and our own. We have seniors that control our environment and provide us with what we need to better ourselves along our way. Out of the dojo there are no rules to protect us from certain individuals. The grounds for combat are not defined and the field is not always even. No weight classes, no skill divisions, no seniors to help us – just the reality of violence that an assailant brings with them.

 

Non-contact training may make you feel great in the dojo and more confident about yourself due to the struggle to achieve but it does not prepare you for the reality of a bare knuckle punch or the destructive power of a weapon. Because you can absorb the blow of a padded fist or foot in training does not mean you are ready for bone o­n bone contact from a focused individual.

 

When you believe you are prepared and are then faced with the reality that you are not can shut you down and get you killed in the real world. You do not have time to learn when you are being beaten o­n the street. You either fight or run if you can. I have seen 1st hand how people freeze when faced with the reality that their training has not been for survival but self improvement. There is nothing wrong with training to better yourself but we all must be honest and know the limitations to what we do.

 

Any teacher who tells you that they are preparing you for combat thru non-contact training or sportive training is lying to you or even worse – passing o­n untested false truths that have been handed down to them. Most have never tested what they practice outside of the dojo – that is a good thing. I do not advocate instructors picking fights o­n the street to see if what they do works but I do want to see instructors being honest with their students. Teach your students what you wish but be honest about its purpose and ultimate goal. If you are teaching true real world survival skills great! But if you are teaching a way that is more geared toward sport and personal growth be honest with yourself and your students about it.

 

The world has changed in many ways but at the same time it has stayed the same. We are less violent o­n a whole in America but we still have the threat of violence in our daily lives. The violence is as modern as we are. We are faced with weapons, drugs, and skilled assailants. Most of our martial arts have stayed in the past and are not prepared for today’s violence. Accept the reality of your training. Question the validity of your way in a real world situation. Don’t believe you are greater then you are – the truth could get you in trouble!

 

OSU!

 

Brian Wright

 

Excellent and 100% TRUTHFUL REPLY. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

 

This article taken from https://www.realfightingdojo.com

EXCELLENT REPLY AND 100% CORRECT. Lots of so called killers have never been in a real fight. God help them when they tell there attacker I have a Black Belt in something. They better be able to back it up. Live long and prosper.

[Drunken Monkey]

IF you look around at the numerous amount of black belts in the world you will see a good portion have a ora that they think they can do what they want

 

and that is where i have a little problem with things as they are presented.

 

there is an underlying insinuation that this is true for black belts UNLESS they come from your school/organisation...

 

i mean, take a look at your signature.

 

Takemichikaikan..............real fighting

 

it's not that i do not agree with the things in the article.

 

yes we know that there are some black belts who are unrealistic.

 

yes we know that some schools give their students false ideas.

 

yes we know that there needs to be a sense of realism in training if fighting is your intent.

 

you keep mentioning tkd in your posts (because they are easy targets?).

 

but are you away of the many variations of tkd?

 

not all of them play the point sparring game or the fancy moves.

 

you are aware of this, right?

 

be aware that even if someone happens to be good at forms DOES NOT mean they cannot fight....

 

and well, just cos some your local tkd school has some bad students does that mean all are like that?

 

IF you look around at the numerous amount of black belts in the world

 

so haw many places in the world have you been to?

 

how many schools have you been to?

 

how many black belts from your own town have you spoken to?[/i]

[wing chun kuen man]

Good post Drunken Monkey,

 

I think that Chylaxin made some good points, however he generelized too much. There are black belts who cannot fight all over the world, and maybe more so in the western hemisphere where the Mcdojo phenomenon is more dominant but at the same time there are many bb´s that lethal fighters even in the west.

 

I don´t know if chylaxin is critisizing, the traditional MAs or the Mc dojos that give out black belts like candy. However, it is my guess that him having that kind of attitude is not very healthy for him if he ever travels lets say to Okinawa, Japan or Korea.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[chylaxin]

see the point of the article was not to start a full contact vs non contact war. It was to point out that if you train for fitness reasons, realize your limitations. I never stated my school is the most dominant. Never once, I'm just proud of my dojo and for any one to try to tell me to denounce my pride is foolish. I might be generalizing but everytime i tell some one my Sensei is a black belt immediatly they state wow he must be tough. For people to make statements such as " I have never seen that situation" they are also generalizing. There are many dojos that are out there trying to become successful and they have the right to. But be honest with yourself if your in one of those school that strive to be successful and subject one to a curriculum of fitness goals. To better one self is always great but once again no your limits. I'd like everyone if they could to go to https://www.easternsunhealthandfitness.com/media.php The reason is white warlock made a statement before and I'd defy any one to see the first video and EVER call my Sensei a couch potato. Osu

[Luckykboxer]

maybe this has been said and maybe not... but i just cant bring myself to read all the posts over and over so ill just post my thoughts.

 

I was a hard core street fighter with no training..

 

just hundreds and hundreds of fights... both on the street, in bars, at organized pit fights, etc.

 

not one lick of martial arts training other then the old chinese kung fu theater movies i watched as a child on saturday mornings.

 

At one point when there was a fight going on and someone said... " i have to warn you im a black belt" I would smile and walk up and step in and say great then you can fight me.

 

I never once lost a fight to these so called black belts.

 

Now one thing to note here...

 

while i did fight alot, i did and still do have my own ethical code.

 

I NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE THAT DIDNT WANT TO FIGHT.

 

I NEVER HURT ANYONE AFTER THE FIGHT WAS OVER.

 

I NEVER PUSHED ANYONE INTO A FIGHT THAT WASNT ALREADY PUSHING FOR IT.

 

I NEVER THREW THE FIRST PUNCH IN MY FIGHTS, UNLESS THEY WERE PIT FIGHTS WHERE I WAS PAID.

 

now, that brought me eventually to a point that i had to choose.... stop fighting the way i was so i could move on with my life and start a family...... or keep up and go to jail or worse..

 

I chose to look at martial arts schools, and clean up my act.

 

I went to 23 schools. I still have all my original notes on each school.

 

I told my story and stated what i wanted. In all but 4 schools they let me spar their black belts.

 

out of the 19 schools i fought at, 2 impressed me, 1 happened to be my kenpo karate school i still train at. So i joined.

 

I got to purple belt, and had to move from san diego to san francisco california.

 

Once again I had to search for a new school.

 

this time it was 42 schools. I was allowed to spar at every school but 2.

 

Out of all those schools I was so disgusted and disappointed that i almost quit martial arts for good... I did quit for 4 years.

 

The only school that had fighters of any level that was impressive was a tae kwon do school.

 

The owner of the school was a pro boxer as well, so the school had great footwork and bodywork to go with the tae kwon do.

 

I was only going to be able to attend 2 days a week and was discouraged and left.

 

Eventually i moved back to san diego, continued at my old school and got my black belt.

 

In the time i have been fighting, both in and out of karate I would estimate i have fought well over 300 black belts in different forms of martial arts. I have also fought a few hundred street fighters with no formal training at all.

 

I would have to say that by far the street fighters with no training were more impressive as a whole then all the black belts i fought.

 

My conclusions to this are multiple.

 

First - there is no substitute for practical first hand experience.

 

what i mean here is that if someone fights all the time, they will get good(or get dead!!) the tough good street fighters learn from experience and they live the life... a tough life, but its what they know and in most cases enjoy.

 

second - techniques and skills taught in martial arts(all styles) are great and when coupled with real life experience make someone that much better then another person with equal experience but no training.

 

third. - techniques and skills taught in martial arts(all styles) will help people who understand body mechanics, and basic principles and are able to use them when in a situation... this type of knowledge without the extension training on bodies is very rare in my experience however.

 

fourth - techniques and skills taught in martial arts(all styles) will give a false sense of security to individuals who do not practice them correctly.

 

If an individual knows how to punch, yet practices punching 1 inch off their target every time, they will not only not feel comfortable hitting a target when the time comes, but they will not be used to how that feels.

 

This coupled with the additional adrenaline and agitation that comes from real combat situations tends to be too much for individuals to overcome or deal with.

 

In the fourth scenario is where the problem lies.

 

People learn techniques, they can recite them under safe conditions, they practice them in safe conditions, yet when the time comes to use them they are not used to dealing with all the additional features from that scenario.

 

It isnt a knock on any martial arts style, rather a knock on the instructor for not setting the right framework, or the right thought process.

 

There is no problem in non combat martial arts, as long as the expectations are set correctly, and as long as it is understood what is not being included.... If the right expectations are set, it can turn a persons reacitons from the fourth scenario i explained above to the third scenario i explained.

 

Other intangibles are obviously things like outside factors.... drug use and abuse will create situations where an opponent wont feel pain and make it harder to deal with.

 

years of building up the body with a tolerance to pain, and the ability to absorb blows as compared to a skilled martial artist with less tolerance to blocking solid shots will effect the outcome.

 

strength and power in a non trained opponent can overcome a trained martial artist in some situations.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

I am in no way or means knocking any forms of martial arts here.

 

I think every form of martial arts has benefits, I think that alot of times instructors of some martial arts are to narrow minded in their intent and do not look fully at the big picture and how they effect their students.

[White Warlock]

chylaxin,

 

Let me make it very clear. I did not call the writer a couch potato. I said he wrote it in 3rd person form, as a couch potato would.

 

LuckyBoxer's post is far more like a 1st person writeup of the same points. Please note the difference.

 

Another point. You can have pride for your school, and even for your instructor... but how about for yourself? I respect everyone i ever trained with, even the ones that weren't really all that good. But that doesn't mean i idolize them.

 

Also, i think it's important to mention that i get the impression you ignored the rest of my post, or the contents of others' posts and are just cherry picking. Getting riled on tangential issues, while not focusing on the 'intent' of the messages being presented in these discussions doesn't allow you the benefit of growth through interchange of ideas.

 

And to close. I do appreciate input from most everyone. Many people do. But sometimes, people like to exchange ideas, which is what these forums are about.

[Drunken Monkey]

...why do you have to tell people your sensei is a black belt?