Third Dan.....11 years.....Is that enough?

[Zen_Diva]

I was browsing through some web sites and there are instructors out there who claim Sandan after only 11 years. According to Funakoshi Sensai, 3 years, one kata.

 

Jutte 3 years

 

Jiin 3 years

 

Bassai Dai 3 years

 

Matsumora Rohia 3 years

 

Seinchin 3 years

 

Hein Kata, lets ignore, but there are 5

 

Neseitch, 3 years

 

Jion 3 years

 

What is total now? I see 21 years, not 11 years. We must be careful to not inflate dan ranking.

 

2nd Dan....10 years is good

 

3rd Dan....must make significant improvement, minimum 5 years after 2nd dan

 

YonDan...very advanced, should only be a handful in country

 

GoDan....rare

 

Shihan.....extremely rare

 

My comments.

[Rainmaker]

Times change. Who in the western world would dedicate the time as you have laid out?

 

I am not saying you are wrong, just that there are few people who would make the commitment.

 

Time is one part of the martial art equation (from the perspective of a traditional budo style). Dedication, experience, and spirit are a few others that can negate time as a measure of rank.

[Killer Miller]

I'm with ya on this one.

 

I trained for 17 years and 2 weeks short of my Nidan test. To truly perfect technique, there's truly no quick method. However, stardom has many quicker avenues though... I probably could have made Sandan in the length of time I trained and followed all the testing schedules - but rank really wasn't a priority in my life, training was my priority. Although, I couldn't have seen myself geeting any higher that Sandan with the amount of years I trained. All the Yondan's and Godan's I knew all had trained 25-30 years plus... Many of them wore white belts - meaning black belts where the black wore off to white.

 

- Killer -

[Luckykboxer]

Times change. Who in the western world would dedicate the time as you have laid out?

 

I am not saying you are wrong, just that there are few people who would make the commitment.

 

This is so what is wrong with Martial arts today.

 

This is exactly why the phrase McDojo was made.

 

If it takes 10 minutes to completely cook grits on a stove at 150degrees, unless the laws of the universe change you cannot do it under the same situation in 5 minutes.

 

MArtial arts is all about dedication. Its about training your body to perform certain tasks as an involuntary act... the only way to do this is through massive training over long periods of time.

 

I have a 6th degree black belt in my area who is 27 years old.

 

has trained for about 13 years.

 

I am a 1st degree black belt. have trained for almost the same time.

 

We have sparred in tournaments or in his dojo at least a dozen times. I have never lost. He is 3 inches taller then me.... he owns his own karate school..so he should have the ability to train and be better. i think the only reason he isnt is because he hasnt put the training in. He elevated and self promoted himself to increase his mcdojo sells.

 

He is not in my same school, but he also does a version of kenpo karate like i do.

 

Its a shame these people make us all look bad.

[G95champ]

Shotokan does a 5 Dan and 10 Dan scale dependong on the association you are with.

 

Basic Time line we use.

 

3 years or more for Dan. (16 age)

 

1 year after that for Nidan

 

2 years after that for Sandan

 

That don't mean you test it just means thats as soon as you could test. Ive been a Nidan since Oct. of 97 and am in no rush to move up.

 

3 years to Yodan

 

5 years to Godan (age of 35 I think)

 

Ranks after that all have age mim's on it.

 

6 is 42

 

7 is 50

 

etc.

 

8 and 9 and 10 are our of most of our reach only reserved for a few people.

[Topic]

my sense has been training since 1966 or a lil earlier and hes a 8th degree in goju, is that right for that amount of years?

[Luckykboxer]

he has been training for 38 years..

 

thats damn near 5 years per black level.

 

As long as he is active i see no reason why not.

 

I know my school has it set up as such...

 

American Kenpo.

 

average time to get 1st black = 5 years

 

must wait 2 years for 2nd black

 

3 years for 3rd black

 

4 years for 4th black

 

5 years for 5th black

 

5 years for each rank through 9th black

 

10th black seems to be a matter of contention..

 

either requiring a consensus from the other high ranking black belts of the kenpo community to promote you to 10th. With some people stating 10th should only be for Ed Parker, and yet others saying 5 years between 9th and 10th black..

 

either way by the time people get to that point for it to be an issue they have put in..between 37 and 39 years. That is saying they have tested or been promoted at the earliest possible time for the next belt.

 

and that is assuming it took them 3 years to get to 1st black.. which i think is the fastest anyone in my current school has managed in 19 years of its being in business.

 

I know schools differ here and there, but I cant imagine how some people are as highly ranked as they claim..

 

There is a kickboxer in San Diego that also trains in a form of karate... i cant remember the name... he claims he is an 8th degree blackbelt..

 

you say your sensei has been training since 1966.... this guy has been alive since 1968...... I have no respect for his rank... your Sensei... I believe that is entirely possible

[Zen_Diva]

What you guys say is reassuring. I agree with everything thats been posted. Whew......I thought for a moment the world was full of 16 year old Godans....who know 156 kata which all kinda look the same.....thx all.

[Red Triangle student]

In my association you have to wait until you are twenty one minimum to get your third dan. I dont know i you have to wait three years after this can anyone from the KUGB confirm this for me?

[renketsu]

Should I take offense at this comment (or is it an unlikely coincidence)?

I was browsing through some web sites and there are instructors out there who claim Sandan after only 11 years

 

Depending on which websites you were looking at - I could take this as a personal insult... deriding my grade/ability/instructors who promoted me etc.

 

This is my profile on our group website (which starts off as "The senior instructor of Renketsu Karate Club is Sensei Andy Wilkinson (3rd Dan) who has been training for over 11 years").

 

I am 28 (obtaining my sandan in sept 03 following a very physical grading conducted by my 6th and 5th Dan instructors), I run my own club as a hobby (yep, I work for a living too) with about 20 students and I purposely charge low rates (to ensure that the club stays afloat but that is it):

 

* £2 per lesson

 

* £5 per Kyu gradings (conducted by my 6th dan instructor)

 

* £20 for Dan gradings (conducted by my 6th dan instructor)

 

* £5 for courses

 

Therefore, its pretty obvious that my grade is not an attempt to promote a McDojo by having an "inflated Dan grade" as implied.

 

It is commonly accepted in the UK (for Shotokan Karate) that the gap between Dan grades is a minimum of the same number of years as the next grade from the date of your last grading, ie:

 

2nd - 3rd = 3 years

 

3rd - 4th = 4 years

 

4th - 5th = 5 years

 

5th - 6th = 6 years

 

etc etc.

 

Our grades are registered with the EKGB (English Karate Governing Body) and AMA (Amateur Martial Association) in accordance with their rules of time spent training.

 

It is such a pity that 24fightingchickens.com has gone, there was a brilliant article on there about grades and how non-standard they are and how people think someone else's grade effects them... oh well never mind.