Most Violent/Real Karate? - The Okinawan Sindo Ryu school

[wing chun kuen man]

This secretive okinawan school of karate is supposedly the most violent system where there are no protective equipment used and that the only forbidden blows are to the eyes. They do not publish books or videos and only have few schools outside of Okinawa.

 

This is their site: https://www.okinawakarate.com

 

Make sure you read the very interesting interview with the sensei Valeri Maystrovoy, who is the president of the International Federation of Okinawa Karate in Russia and head instructor for the European region.

 

Real kick-* karate or what?

 

Opinions?

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[Luckykboxer]

until they play with other practitioners it can be either dumb karate or kick *.

 

you can put a bunch of idiots in a room with bats and have them beat on each other, even if they use technique you still have a room full of idiots.

 

Until I see someone from this style do anything, I will probably go with the room full theory

[wing chun kuen man]

I don´t think that your comments are fair. The Sindo Ryu school seems to be a traditional martial arts school and they practice their system in a traditional way based on traditional values. Why assume that they are a room full of idiots? I did not see anything on their site that implied that they were.

 

It is not very likely that we will see many people from this style doing much, primarily because it seems that not that many people practice it outside of Okinawa for obvious reasons. Also, winning competitions and medals does not seem to be their main training objective. However, it was mentioned that some practitioners (Russian) enter full contact competitions. So who knows may be one day we will see one of these guys in action. Until then I am willing to keep an open mind.

 

At the same time, any doubters with money can by a plane ticket to Okinawa or Moscow (dojo address provided on the site). Once there, they can find out for themselves through challenge matches or even "friendly sparring" or simple observation.

 

I know for sure that if I am ever in Moscow in the near future , I will surely drop in at the dojo and have a look and see how they train, spar etc.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[Killer Miller]

I don't know? There are some legitimate things on their site, and what appears to be some fiction to their beleifs as well. What few pictures there were looked like the technique wasn't too bad and posture looked appropriate. But I'm always leary of non-Asian persons proclaiming to be the best and baddest in existance with no real mention of Asian masters in their organization - these are statements that you would not hear from true Asian traditionalists. Plus the setting in beautiful picture perfect surroundings commonly is a give-a-way too.

 

But who knows?

 

- Killer -

[DLopez]

The quality of the Karate taught there may or may not be genuine, but I find myself just scratcing my head asking "what's the point"?

 

No fight rules and no weight classes?? Sounds like 'Fight Club'.

 

Seriously though, I wonder what would someone's motivation be to enter into that kind of training, and what is the purpose of that kind of training?

 

I guess the second paragraph helps explains it:

Russia has always been famous for its individuals who like to live life to its limits. It therefor goes without saying that if it's a question of Karate, then it must be full-contact, without protective equipment or rules.

 

Not knocking what other folks find pleasurable (?) or fun, but this almost sounds cult-like.

[tommarker]

I think they are trying very hard to appeal to the "crazy Russian" stereotype. I think you'd be disappointed in the long run, and could probably find equally hard trainers in Brazil. Most of the South Americans I've trained with in the past have been pretty tough.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I didn't look over the entire site, but one thing caught my eye taht I thought was particularily significant.

 

They listed various kata that they practice. Among which, were "Sanchin, KuanKu & Bassay" For one thing, the Sanchin kata is not of Okinawan origion as far as I know. It is a Japanese kata (from Shotokan?). And "KuanKu and Bassay", I would suspect, are the misspellings of the Okinawan kata Kusanku and of the Japanese kata Bassai, which is a adaption of the Okinawan Passai kata.

 

So, to me anyway, it looks like somebody down the road of the system is using Japanese influence in a so called Old traditional Okinawan system.

 

Also, under Shorinryu, they say "SHORIN RYU is the most illustrious style of Okinawa Karate. It is made up of a handful of schools: Matsubayashi Ryu, Kobayashi Ryu, Saybayashi Ryu, Matsumura seito Ryu, Sindo Ryu and others."

 

I've been involved in Shorinryu Matsumura Seito for nearly 30 years now, and I've NEVER heard of Sindo Ryu before perttaining to a Shorinryu branch. It must be REALLY secret, huh?

 

For me, any system that is "secretive" makes me suspicous anyway. What are they trying to hide? And full contact without any protective gear is just plain nonsense. Can you imagine two beginners going at it full contact, and wanting to come to another class afterwards? I don't think so.

[wing chun kuen man]

Interesting comments.

 

I don´t really know wether this school is secretive or just low profile. As far as I know Sanchin kata, was of Okinawan origin as it is practiced in traditional okinawan Goju-Ryu and To´on Ryu karate styles among others. Actually it is supposed to be an Okinawan version of a southern shaolin form, or so I have read somewhere. According to the Russian master, one enters full contact after one year of training first, to build up resistance etc. So, beginners are not expected to participate in full contact sparring. And to me personally the school does not look like a cult.

 

There were a few japanese names mentioned in the interview, that of Meitoki Yagi(10th dan), Takayoshi Nagamine (9th dan) and Hanashiro Naito(6th dan). Could it be that Sindo-Ryu refers to the training methodology rather than an individual karate style. That is, a school of thought on training as opposed to a school of style? After all the site lists 3 main okinawan karate styles while at the same time describing okinawan karate as Okinawa-Te. Remembering that the site states that the Sindo-Ryu headquarters are in Okinawa we must acknowledge the fact that that karate training in okinawa is a different ball game to that in the west ie. training extremes that would result in law suits here in the west, that is if anyone would stay long enough to get injured in the first place. I remember a long time ago I read an interview with an Okinawan master, I think it was Morio Higaonna, but I am not sure, and he said something to the effect that the high intensity of training in his younger days resulted in him having blood in his urine after the training sessions.

 

Tommarker, Eventhough I am interested to find out more about the Sindo-Ryu school, I don´t really want to train there. I already have my hands full with my traditional Wing Chun training...lol. I am just very curious.

 

D. Lopez, you asked what would be the motivation for someone to enter that kind of training. Well, I personally think that on one level is the same as a Thaiboxer´s or Kyokushinkai practitioner`s...they want contact, realism and maybe to be closer to the warrior/bushido path. The difference is that with Sindo-Ryu they may taking their quest one level further (maybe Sindo-Ryu´s purpose is to separate the men from the boys..lol). Actually, I think that Mas. Oyama´s kyokushinkai was closer to Sindo-Ryu when it was first created, then it got tonned down for the sake of popularity, but even so it is still one of the "hardest" combat styles around.

 

I am going to go through the site again and see if I missed something.

 

Until later,

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[Sauzin]

I'll try to keep this as non opinionated as possible but please forgive me if a few slip out.

 

First, full contact, no holds bared, anything goes but eye gouging, sparring without gear with true karate is suicide. Some-one's gonna die. Not maybe someone might get hurt, no, someone is leaving the dojo in a body bag and most of the time the other person is catching an ambulance. Why? Well Karate, traditional karate, is not a sport. Never was, never should be (oops that's an opinion). They don't teach just how to fight, they teach how to very effectively end a fight. That said the idea of no gear fighting with the above conditions is insane.

 

Secondly their history is *. They should try reading John Sells “Unate”, they might learn something.

 

Thirdly I have serious issue with the following which was posted on their site:

 

"There is now on Okinawa only one school for Ancient Okinawa Combat Karate and Kobudo - "Sindo Ryu" (its name can be translated as "The School of the Truthful Way") headed by the 68 year old Sensei Hanashiro Naito. What distinguishes the Sindo Ryu school from others, is that all fighting is full contact, no protective equipment is used and it takes place in accordance with Ancient Okinawa Combat Karate rule- "Uri Kumi Go", by which only the blows forbidden are ones to the eyes and any and all styles are permitted"

 

I practice a legitimate fighting art that I can trace back about 600 years and has been around for about 80. There’s was created this decade and they call it the “only one school for Ancient Okinawa Combat Karate and Kobudo”. What kind of drugs give a guy these kinds of delusions of grandeur? If they let this kind of crud slide one must wonder what other kind of fictional nonsense they believe and practice.

 

Forth, the name Okinawa-Te was taken by two other systems, which undoubtedly will be suing them. These systems have very different Chinese roots and descend from Okinawan royalty. They are unique in their Aikido like foot work and use of the rope as a weapon. Again, see John Sells book.

 

Last but not least the styles they refer to are legit styles, and it seems like they have studied under legit teachers. Why they have to go and tarnish their reputation by posting stuff like what I quoted above is beyond me.

 

P.S. Sanchin is Chinese in origin. Actually most kata with a number divisible by 3 in its name come from China and can be traced to certain systems. Certain Chinese systems kept track of what kata made up a system by simply adding their numbers together. Chinese numerology is a bit odd like that.

[trekmann]

Do any of the students at that school work? Do they have financial responsibilities like mortgagees, rent and bills?

 

I f people want to do full contact Karate with no protective equipment at all then that is fine with me. But wing when you sustain a serious injury and then fall behind in your mortgage payments because you are unfit for work.

 

Just my opinion.