UK big brother 2004

[Drunken Monkey]

is there ever a case for hitting a woman?

 

i hate to admit this but i've been sitting here, supposedly drawing in autocad but kinda watching live big brother coverage.

 

just now, a big argument between two housemates somehow developed.

 

this doesn't matter....

 

during this, two other housemates who, for whatever reason have a hatred towards each other started to argue as well, tempers flaring ending with the male housemate 'hitting' the female housemate.

 

now bare in mind that this female has previously been

 

i) loud

 

ii) abusive

 

iii) threatening

 

iv) baiting (for the male housemate to 'try something')

 

v) from what i can tell, she was the one who initiated both the argument AND the physical exchange.

 

was he right to?

 

is it always wrong for a man to hit a woman?

 

here's what i think.

 

and feel free to criticise me.

 

we live in a society where there are certain lines that you don't cross.

 

it can be said that one of these is that men should not hit women.

 

BUT

 

i think that more importantly, man (human kind) should not hit fellow man.

 

the old saying comes into my head

 

'do unto others as you want them to do unto you'.

 

if you shout at me, i can shout back.

 

if you push me, i can push back.

 

if you hit me, i can hit you back.

 

i don't care if you are man or woman.

 

if you decide to cross any of those lines then i think that any right to that defence (of man not hitting woman) goes right out of the window.

 

now i'm not saying that the male housemate is totally free of blame or responsiblity but what was he supposed to do?

 

my honest answer?

 

i don't know.

 

i've typed them words but i'm sure if think about it more, i might have something different to say.

 

what do you guys think?

[DLopez]

You know, this is going to sound sexist, but this is my own experience speaking... Maybe I just dated a wacko...

 

Anyhow, I believe that (western) society has it ingrained in our psyche (and laws) that hitting women is wrong. I believe it and hold to that. However, and here is the part that might sound sexist, I think women know that if they can get you to hit them in a fight, then they have you by the youknowwhat!

 

I remember having huge arguments with an old girlfriend deteriorate to the point where she would corner me and start pushing me, or try to slap me, trying to push my buttons to get me to hit her back. She'd even continue the prodding by calling me a wimp because I wouldn't fight back - stuff like that. I finally had enough when she started breaking my belongings, so instead of hitting her, I simply left her. I was afraid (and rightly so, too) that if I'd even given her a teeny little scratch, I would probably have ended up in jail.

 

So, I guess in taking the long way to answer it, yes, I still think it's wrong to hit a woman. It's a no-win situation, even if the girl deserves it.

Edited June 17, 2004 by DLopez

[Zorba]

there is a difference between hitting and defending, if a chick was to hit me, i would not hit back, i would block, trap, maybe a lock, and push her away. but not hit back.

 

but it depends, was she a girly girl, or a chinese swim team girl?

[TheDevilAside]

If the woman had a weapon, I'd apply whatever force necessary to keep her from harming anyone. Of course, I would probably hesitate and be more reluctant with her than I would be if it were a guy.

 

If she didn't have a weapon, and she was just trying to provoke me by shoving me, etc., I wouldn't hit her. Like DLopez said, it's just a no-win situation. But a woman would have to be out of her mind to hit me anyway... but then again, most are

[Drunken Monkey]

women know that if they can get you to hit them in a fight, then they have you by the *

 

don't worry, i think everyone will agree with you on this.

 

thanks for the response.

 

i was expecting this one to die quietly.

 

anyway.

 

all very valid points.

 

yes, there is a difference between hitting and defending.

 

the thing is, even if you block, lock and push/throw/control, you are then still an 'aggressor' of sorts (not to mention that she'd just come back at you when you release her)

 

please bare in mind that what i have said was in relation to the big brother house situation.

 

he had no way to leave.

 

another little question?

 

who's wrong in the house situation?

 

the girl for baiting?

 

or

 

the guy for getting caught?

[DLopez]

I almost forgot you were referring to a TV show...

 

Come to think about it, I don't know what the legal rights are of someone being on a "reality" show and getting into a fight.

 

Couldn't that be construed (or even part of the contract) as just part of the entertainment, and therefore, by agreeing to do the show they waived any rights to sue the other if a fight breaks out? Dunno.

 

I'm sure it makes for good ratings when a fight breaks out.

[aefibird]

I personally would blame the girl in that situation. I've been watching BB a little bit and she seems the type to deliberately wind a person up until they'd snap and whack her one. Actually, I'd like to give her a good slapping and I'm only watching the show, not sharing a house with her!! He shouldn't have hit her, but she was responsible for winding him up in the first place - she bore the consequences of her own actions.

 

Aside from that, I think that it's generally wrong for men to hit women, especially if they insinuate the attack and are not defending themselves. In a defence situatuion it would be different, especially if it was a life-threatening situation or if the woman was carrying a weapon.

 

It's a tough one to call, really. Like DLopez said, it's a no-win situation.

[Bart the Lover]

I don't think it's wrong for a man to hit a woman per se. It's wrong for

 

anyone (male, female, adult, whatever) to abuse a position of greater

 

strength. And until recently, it was simply taken as a given that any

 

man was superior to any woman.

 

A young strong man, who hits an elderly infirm man, is just as bad as

 

a man who hits the average woman. It's the abuse of power that matters,

 

not the sex of the victim.

 

Drunken Monkey wrote:

if you shout at me, i can shout back.

 

if you push me, i can push back.

 

if you hit me, i can hit you back.

 

i don't care if you are man or woman.

 

if you decide to cross any of those lines then i think that any right to that defence (of man not hitting woman) goes right out of the window.

 

If a woman slaps you (which is a hit) would you hit her back? If she was

 

armed, or attacked you (hitting you repeatedly) then you would be

 

justified in defending yourself, in my view. However, I don't think a single

 

hit from a woman (unless she's built like a brick privy, and the man is

 

small) can justify hitting her back. Even if a woman if threatening, it's

 

still wrong. What matters is not the threat, but the capability of carrying it

 

out. So a seven stone woman threatening a sixteen stone man is not

 

equivalent to a sixteen stone man threatening a seven stone woman.

 

Please note that these are just general comments; I have never seen

 

Big Brother so I can't judge the specific incident you are talking about,

 

Drunken Monkey. However, I take issue with your assertion that the

 

male contestant had no way to leave. Of course he can leave, at any time.

 

It's not a prison. He can't leave without withdrawing from the competition,

 

but so what?

 

As far as baiting goes, yes it's wrong to wind someone up and threaten

 

to hit them, knowing that if they hit you all the opprobrium will fall on

 

them. But that doesn't make it acceptable to lash out. I think occasionally

 

being wound up is a small price to pay for being physically stronger.

 

DLopez: In my view, your ex is just the same as men who beat their

 

partners. I don't think it is anything to do with any kind of unfair male-

 

female dynamic. People who bully and abuse their partner do so because

 

they get away with it. If there were consequences, they would be much

 

less likely to do it. That is equally true of women as it is of men. We're

 

just not familiar with hearing about female on male abuse.

 

aefibird wrote:

I personally would blame the girl in that situation. I've been watching BB a little bit and she seems the type to deliberately wind a person up until they'd snap and whack her one. Actually, I'd like to give her a good slapping and I'm only watching the show, not sharing a house with her!! He shouldn't have hit her, but she was responsible for winding him up in the first place - she bore the consequences of her own actions.

 

Once you accept being provoked verbally explains or justifies (at least in

 

part) hitting someone we're all in trouble. This is the type of thing that

 

men say in explanation for hitting their partners: she was gloating about

 

being unfaithful/called me useless in bed/said I had a small one.

 

Well, boo hoo. Say nasty things back, or slam the door or smash

 

something. But don't hit.

 

Regards,

 

Bart the Lover

 

Edit: I just realised, aefibird, that I was assuming the female Big Brother

 

contestant didn't start the physical confrontation. If she did, that changes

 

the flavour of what you wrote. Sorry if this is the case.

[DLopez]

DLopez: In my view, your ex is just the same as men who beat their

 

partners. I don't think it is anything to do with any kind of unfair male-

 

female dynamic. People who bully and abuse their partner do so because

 

they get away with it. If there were consequences, they would be much

 

less likely to do it. That is equally true of women as it is of men. We're

 

just not familiar with hearing about female on male abuse.

 

Interesting point of view, however, the one thing I probably wasn't clear about, was that I am physically bigger than her - it wasn't like I couldn't defend myself. Imagine her throwing a punch (no joke!!), and me blocking it and her hurting her hand. How easy would it be for her to say I hurt her hand and the authorities would have no problem believing it.

 

In the eyes of the law and society, I would have been portrayed the abuser in a typical "guy beats girl" spousal abuse case, not a woman abusing a guy.

 

I think cases of the latter are extremely few and far between for a reason.

[Fenris-wolf]

Well, Bart the Lover, (nice name BTW ), you pretty much made all my points! I fully agree.

 

About the only difference I think it can make is that generally men are bigger than women so even if the woman is physically capable it is very easy for a man to use physical intimidation, even without hitting her. I for one could not hit anybody I cared about unless in a very extreme situation (I'm female) and realistically to win a fight with my partner I'd have to use dirty tactics.

 

But that is not to say in any way that a man abusing a woman is in anyway worse than a woman abusing a man, or a man a man for that matter.