Don't understand why faith is placed in noncontact arts

[delta1]

I'm not trying to pick on you Delta1, but your recent post of how this guy should have been able to put the other guy away, and concluding that he couldn't because he didn't train with heavy contact is a little bit of a reach...Why isn't the reason that the other guy didn't quit was because he was just a tougher hombre than he appeared?

 

There's truth there in what you say. As usual, the truth lies somewhere between the extremes. I suspect both had a lot to do with it- from what this kid said, the other guy was a mess.

 

 

It's kinda late now, but this debate about training for real-life begs the question: If "real-life" training is the only way to go, then why, as has been hinted at by KSN Doug, don't we all train in a suit with our dress shoes on, or even jeans and sneakers?

 

I do, including my steel toed boots or anything else I commonly wear. And I can tell you that timeing, traction, mobility, ... everything changes a little bit.

I am beginning to understand more of what Shawn said earlier about it just being an ego boost to some, being able to say that they train with heavy contact and then go around like the originator of this thread and proclaim that the rest of us are wasting our time with light/no contact training and are in denial about it.

 

Maybe for some. But I can say with authority gained from bitter experience that sparing with contact is a good way to get your ego deflated too. And I never said you or anyone is wasteing their time. This kid came out on top of a bad situation with his no contact skills. My only point is that if you want to improve your chances in self defense situations, you might want to consider training some with contact.

Someone even mentioned that the reason I don't pull my kicks when I kick the bag even though I practice light contact sparring is it's because I kick a bag. To that then, I say "Whatever works!" Because, even if it were true that light contact teaches you to pull kicks, evidently all I need to do is kick the bag and those bad habits go away. So again, where is the need for heavy contact?

 

We do tend to drift to extremes when arguing a point! Working the bag is good, but it doesn't work the distancing, angles and targeting on a moving, resisting opponent. No contact will do some of this, but contact does more. The good thing about a bag is you can hit it harder than your training partner, even if you are doing 'full' contact.

 

I don't look down on, or denigrade those who don't do contact. Some people can't afford to- they need healthy hands for their jobs, or have medical conditions, or just don't want to. Heck, I'm getting to the point that I can't do as much any more. Also, all contact training is done with control, and no one goes out every day and trains hard contact. Common sense and moderation are the order with contact training, just like everything else. But the topic is contrasting effectiveness of the methods of training (even if it was presented a little in your face), and that is my opinion. I can agree to disagree, especially since I don't disagree with you totally.

 

Like I said earlier, it is a matter of degrees of preparedness, and we all have to decide how we want to prepare- or for some even if it is an issue.

[battousai16]

"Someone even mentioned that the reason I don't pull my kicks when I kick the bag even though I practice light contact sparring is it's because I kick a bag. To that then, I say "Whatever works!" Because, even if it were true that light contact teaches you to pull kicks, evidently all I need to do is kick the bag and those bad habits go away. So again, where is the need for heavy contact? "

 

well, yeah, that was my point. you worked out a gap in your training by kicking a bag. though, i'd say doing no heavy contact is a fairly large gap in its self, and i'd say the same for doing no light contact

[SBN Doug]

Did we already address the question of how "heavy contact" is defined for grappling?

 

My issue with the majority of our schools is not that they enforce light contact (for all the safety reasons previously stated), it's that we are only using strikes. The majority of our arsenal is joint manipulation and throws, yet we can't use them even in the light contact mode. How on earth would we be able to safely use them in a heavy contact atmosphere?

 

Fortunately, I've been able to practice for a few years at a club where we did allow trows and take-downs, but only those of us at higher levels, with the acceptable amount of experience and control.

[delta1]

Did we already address the question of how "heavy contact" is defined for grappling?

 

Sparing with ground option against someone who knows what they are doing can be a truly humbling experience. But I've seen very few people who could get joint locks in contact sparing. How did you find it- relatively easy or difficult?

[Thuggish]

man, ill say one thing. find me some guy who trains in 'light contact' or 'no contact' or whatever tkd or karate or kung fu or some showy 'look at me i do forms or katas' crap... and i bet you i can kick his *. dont get all mad at me, just seems to be reality.

[TheDevilAside]

Pfft. Give Me any guy, light contact, full contact, UFC, ballet, and I could kick his *. *scratches crotch* yeah man..

[White Warlock]

hehe

[DLopez]

man, I'll say one thing... find me any grade schooler, 1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade, even a top dog 6th grader, and I bet you I can kick his azz!! Don't get all mad at me, just seems to be reality.

 

[SBN Doug]

Did we already address the question of how "heavy contact" is defined for grappling?

 

Sparing with ground option against someone who knows what they are doing can be a truly humbling experience. But I've seen very few people who could get joint locks in contact sparing. How did you find it- relatively easy or difficult?

 

Impossible for the wrist with the gloves on, but that's probably obvious.

 

It's easy on some, more difficult on others. I've been able to take a kick on the arm, trap it, sweep the other leg, take down, turn over and lock the knee and ankle. I've also been able to get the elbow and shoulder. but I can't even try the wrist, and my mobility is hampered as well. Therefore, for us to "really" test all our techniques, we'd have to go no pads. And I fear someone would probably get hurt at that point.

[Thuggish]

everyone gets mad at me anyway...