Crossover from point karate to knockdown

[Zal]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if anyone has made a transition from point karate to knockdown? I am currently a 3rd kyu and have pretty much done point sparring with the exception of a few sessions doing knockdown. I am really intrested in the knockdown side of sparring and was wondring if I would have to dramatically change the way i spar?

 

Any ideas would be welcome!

[Knockdown]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if anyone has made a transition from point karate to knockdown? I am currently a 3rd kyu and have pretty much done point sparring with the exception of a few sessions doing knockdown. I am really intrested in the knockdown side of sparring and was wondring if I would have to dramatically change the way i spar?

 

Any ideas would be welcome!

 

Yes, you will have to dramatically change the way you spar.

 

do lots of combos in practice, and make sure to NOT pull

 

your punches in a real match. PRACTICE to not punch

 

people in the face. and really make sure you are

 

comfortable avoiding, blocking, checking an taking low kicks.

 

getting a point in point sparring is (as you know) worlds

 

away from the KO of Knockdown fighting. I have done both

 

and they are very very different.

 

Good luck!

[Dijita]

Good Advice, I really have nothing more to offer.

 

Actually, you're going to need to practice a bit of knockdown sparring with a partner though... you need to get used to taking the hits as well. If you haven't been hit hard repeadidly in a tournement it will come as quiet a shock to you the first time it happens. So condition your body for these hits. Condition your shins as well because the unconditioned shin hurts when you kick.

[Killer Miller]

Ah...*....

 

Stay doing your point sparring techniques, but carry your techniques another inch longer, and they won't be getting up - and they will wonder why you're so rough on them!

 

Don't listen to half of whay you're being told from the other side that doesn't truly know what the point side of the world is really all about. It's a fine line in reality. I trained a couple of students that wanted to get into the point sparring arena for the heck of it. They did execellent... Not a concept I wanted them to learn at the time, but I wasn't going to hold them back from it either.

 

If you "think" that "point sparring" is truly different from contact sparring, then you won't do so well. Once you realize that there truly is no difference, except the one inch, you will devistate quite a few opponents. However, at 3rd Kyu, I would wonder if you are refined enough to realize there's really no difference.

 

- Killer -

[Knockdown]

Ah...*....

 

Stay doing your point sparring techniques, but carry your techniques another inch longer, and they won't be getting up - and they will wonder why you're so rough on them!

 

Don't listen to half of whay you're being told from the other side that doesn't truly know what the point side of the world is really all about. It's a fine line in reality. I trained a couple of students that wanted to get into the point sparring arena for the heck of it. They did execellent... Not a concept I wanted them to learn at the time, but I wasn't going to hold them back from it either.

 

If you "think" that "point sparring" is truly different from contact sparring, then you won't do so well. Once you realize that there truly is no difference, except the one inch, you will devistate quite a few opponents. However, at 3rd Kyu, I would wonder if you are refined enough to realize there's really no difference.

 

- Killer -

 

it is unfortunate you do not know what you are talking about.

[Dijita]

Ah...*....

 

Stay doing your point sparring techniques, but carry your techniques another inch longer, and they won't be getting up - and they will wonder why you're so rough on them!

 

Don't listen to half of whay you're being told from the other side that doesn't truly know what the point side of the world is really all about. It's a fine line in reality. I trained a couple of students that wanted to get into the point sparring arena for the heck of it. They did execellent... Not a concept I wanted them to learn at the time, but I wasn't going to hold them back from it either.

 

If you "think" that "point sparring" is truly different from contact sparring, then you won't do so well. Once you realize that there truly is no difference, except the one inch, you will devistate quite a few opponents. However, at 3rd Kyu, I would wonder if you are refined enough to realize there's really no difference.

 

- Killer -

 

Killer, you have some preety strong opinions about things. I have fought point sparring before quiet a bit when I used to do Kuk Sool Won. Yes, the techniques are the same, and someone who has done point sparring would have a good chance at doing well in knockdown because they are probably good technical fighters... however that shouldn't mean that a person doesn't need to train differently for knockdown fighting. It's important to do a bit further training if you want to lower your risk of getting hurt.

 

In a knockdown tournement, one point wins, the only way you are going to get that one point is if you sufficently hurt your opponent that they lose the will to fight for a moment.

 

Learning how to not pull your strikes and kicks actually takes some time. As an example, I still tend to pull my kicks at the head, because in our color belt division kicks to the head are supposed to be just touch contact. I want to enter an open tournement by the end of the year so now I'm trying to train to follow all the way through with my head kicks.

 

As I stated earlier, conditioning your body to get used to being hit is vitally important. If a martial artist is not conditioned to being hit, theres more risk of injury, and the student is more likely to back off during the bout. Proper breathing and the ability to keep your stomach tense also becomes extremely important, because the opponent is looking for the that oppurtunity to wind the fighter. Not only that, but if you've never practiced fighting without gloves or shin pads, it's going to really come as a shock the first time the practitioner strikes shin on shin.

 

Killer I've shown my respect to you always in my posts. Your post however has a very strong tone of implying that I am completely ignorant and don't know anything about fighting in tournements. Thanks.

[Killer Miller]

A little strong, yes. Meant for disrespect no. To make a point, yes.

 

I have never gone on here and bad-mouthed another style on the forum - THAT"S respect... However, I'm a little tired of "other" styles saying things about my style that "are not true." These types of comments typically come from persons that have not trained my style before, or have not reached a significant level in the art to know the truth (black belt plus). And I'm supossed to sit here and go, "yeh you're write, my style is cr*p." I will only listen to that for so long before I start sticking up for my style regarding the real truth. I'm not mad, and I'm not trying to start a flame here. However, when I see impropper information be provided to a person/student of "my style," then yeah, I'm going to speak up.

Killer, you have some preety strong opinions about things. I have fought point sparring before quiet a bit when I used to do Kuk Sool Won. Yes, the techniques are the same, and someone who has done point sparring would have a good chance at doing well in knockdown because they are probably good technical fighters... however that shouldn't mean that a person doesn't need to train differently for knockdown fighting. It's important to do a bit further training if you want to lower your risk of getting hurt..

 

Who says that you actually have to train differently? How do you know how we/I trained? Do you think that we do contact, or know "how" to contact? I could make mince-meat out of a makiwara or heavy bag - is this not contact? If a body was there, this body would not feel pain, or be "knocked down?"

In a knockdown tournement, one point wins, the only way you are going to get that one point is if you sufficently hurt your opponent that they lose the will to fight for a moment.

Do you feel, or are you implying, that we are not capable of a "one point win?" That's the premise of our entire art - One chance to "kill" with the perfect technique. Either do it, or don't do it at all - so to speak...

Learning how to not pull your strikes and kicks actually takes some time. As an example, I still tend to pull my kicks at the head, because in our color belt division kicks to the head are supposed to be just touch contact. I want to enter an open tournement by the end of the year so now I'm trying to train to follow all the way through with my head kicks.

This is another incorrect statement as well. Do you think that we "pull" our punches? Wrong... We just happen to be polite enough, usually, and have enough control in our technique to stop 1/2" from hurting someone... To hurt you, or devostate you, we just carry it a tiny bit further - you would definately go down for the count. We do not "pull" our punches as you might think.

 

Also, do you truly think we are only capable of only "one" blow to an opponent, or not capable of multiple blows? If so, this is incorrect as well.

As I stated earlier, conditioning your body to get used to being hit is vitally important. If a martial artist is not conditioned to being hit, theres more risk of injury, and the student is more likely to back off during the bout. Proper breathing and the ability to keep your stomach tense also becomes extremely important, because the opponent is looking for the that oppurtunity to wind the fighter. Not only that, but if you've never practiced fighting without gloves or shin pads, it's going to really come as a shock the first time the practitioner strikes shin on shin.

 

Do you also feel that I'm not use to being hit? I use to come home from team training with black & blue welts all over my body and I didn't even know I was being hit so hard...

 

Also, do you feel that we don't know how "not" to use guards - beleive me, this is by far not a supprise or shock to our art. In fact, we hardly ever use protective wear because if gives a false sense of security and promotes improper technique development.

Killer I've shown my respect to you always in my posts. Your post however has a very strong tone of implying that I am completely ignorant and don't know anything about fighting in tournements. Thanks.

 

No I don't think you are ignorant about fighting in full contact tournaments. And I appreciate your respect as always. However, you must understand my methods to my madness regarding my arts. Also, you are not an expert of my art, and feel that many of the information provided to persons of "my art" are inappropriately given by persons that do not truly understand what our art is all about.

 

So my advice to the other person is not to dis-respect the kick-boxing community, but to instill a proper frame-of-mind to prepare him mentally through the transition between our art to their's.

 

- Killer -

[Dijita]

I'm confused as to why you have taken this personally. I never, ever implyed anything directly to a specific art. I only stated what I thought compared to the point sparring I have done in the past.

 

Perhaps using the phrase "train differently" is inaccurate, however posting some training ideas shouldn't be considered *. Maybe you do, do the things that are suggested... then great but if the original poster doesn't... then maybe it's something to consider.

 

I, as well as Knockdown, were only offering suggestions on ways to train. It was not meant to put down any style or any other style of training for that matter. I never assumed anything of the style you train.

 

They were just suggestions and nothing further.

[Fat Donkey]

Yo Killer, take up the challenge and enter some full contact MA's. Then Talk! I moved from JKA Shotokan point sparring to WTF full contact and then MT. Trust me there is a world of difference. Point sparring simply does not prepare u for full contact, end of story. I loved every MA i did and respected it but until u actually go at it full bore your speaking out of ignorance. There is no doubt in my mind that JKA training was one of the toughest I've taken but the one hit victory is unrealistic and point sparring is good for the kids but u have to go beyond that. Give it a try

[Killer Miller]

Out of curiosity, how long did you train with JKA, and what rank were you?

 

- Killer -

Yo Killer, take up the challenge and enter some full contact MA's. Then Talk! I moved from JKA Shotokan point sparring to WTF full contact and then MT. Trust me there is a world of difference. Point sparring simply does not prepare u for full contact, end of story. I loved every MA i did and respected it but until u actually go at it full bore your speaking out of ignorance. There is no doubt in my mind that JKA training was one of the toughest I've taken but the one hit victory is unrealistic and point sparring is good for the kids but u have to go beyond that. Give it a try