47MartialMan Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 and not all grappling occurs when you are 'on the ground'. I agree.
47MartialMan Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 This discussion, like all of this vs that, is almost pointless. UFC and such maches have rules. Some of these rules apply to striking. It DEPENDS on the situation and people involved. I seen street guy wop the hell out of people. One my instructors says the victory of the fight is the one whom can take a hit(s). Against my advice, I had a JJ friend that though he was so well in JJ, went to one of these "show and fight" matches. This brawling guy knock him out with one punch! From my years seeing, (and beeing in) bar fights and street fights, not even half wound up on the ground! I put this to you....if it started on your feet, and it gets to the ground, then you had less skills to maintain from keeping off the ground to begin with. Because the confrontation did not START on the ground.
Flying Tiger Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 My instructor often says that most fights start standing up, and end on the ground, and that we train to keep from going on the ground. The greatest clarity is profound silence.
47MartialMan Posted September 3, 2004 Posted September 3, 2004 I put this to you....if it started on your feet, and it gets to the ground, then you had less skills to maintain from keeping off the ground to begin with. Because the confrontation did not START on the ground. Hold the phone......when I seen someone get hit hard.....the nect podstion they made, they fell to the ground, unconcious, or near uncomciousness.... Does this count for "ending on the ground"?
Bad_Vibes Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 Hold the phone......when I seen someone get hit hard.....the nect podstion they made, they fell to the ground, unconcious, or near uncomciousness.... Does this count for "ending on the ground"? Believe it or not, I thought that was the original assumption. Maybe it's living in the midwest or something, but most fights I've seen or been an unwilling part of stayed off the ground unless the other person was knocked off their feet. Then it was just a field goal style kick fest. I have yet to see a street fight turn into a pure grappling match. And that includes one I witnessed with an associate of mine that actually trains primarilly in grappling. Who wants to end up on the nasty piss stained concrete surrounding most bars and clubs. Maybe a lot of these ground fights are the after school in the field type where it's not so nasty and dangerous to be on the ground. Maybe I'm just to old and am assuming we are talking about actual concrete when we say "street fights".
battousai16 Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 whoa whoa whoa... WW, what happened that the person got stabbed 49 TIMES!?! that's incredible! 49? 7 or 8 is excessive, 49... geez. kitchen mishap? "I hear you can kill 200 men and play a mean six string at the same time..."-Six String Samurai
White Warlock Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 whoa whoa whoa... WW, what happened that the person got stabbed 49 TIMES!?! that's incredible! 49? 7 or 8 is excessive, 49... geez. kitchen mishap?lol. Silly human My friend was a cab driver in San Diego. He was assaulted and stabbed for the 40 dollars in his wallet. The hospital report, which was provided to the media, indicated they located 49 stab wounds throughout his body, plus lacerations.I put this to you....if it started on your feet, and it gets to the ground, then you had less skills to maintain from keeping off the ground to begin with. Because the confrontation did not START on the ground. The goal isn't to keep it from going to the ground. The goal is to survive, and preferably triumph against your assailant. Awhile back, a friend of mine, who loved to call me sensei (damn that was annoying), made a playful surprise assault on me while i was outside walking across the grass lawn. I had on a brand new pair of really nice lightly tanned pants, so when he attacked me, i didn't immediately drop to one knee and throw his silly butt. Instead, i pivoted and grappled with him until i eventually lifted him in the air and threatened to toss him in the pool. The thing was, i spent sooo much energy just trying to 'avoid' going to the ground, that when i walked back into my apartment, i collapsed in the kitchen. Had i just allowed my pants to get messed up, the 'play' fight would have been over in seconds. So really... if your goal is to keep from going to the ground, you're already putting yourself at a disadvantage. The goal, in no uncertain terms, should be to survive at all costs. And yes, that means if it were a real confronation instead of a play fight, my brand new pair of pants would have had to die that day, to save my life. "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
SevenStar Posted September 5, 2004 Posted September 5, 2004 Believe it or not, I thought that was the original assumption. Maybe it's living in the midwest or something, but most fights I've seen or been an unwilling part of stayed off the ground unless the other person was knocked off their feet. I've seen several - it happens alot. People stumble, lose balance and drag eachother to the ground. Also, people like to tackle. Who wants to end up on the nasty * stained concrete surrounding most bars and clubs. Nobody WANTS to, but if you end up there, you had better know what to do. Maybe a lot of these ground fights are the after school in the field type where it's not so nasty and dangerous to be on the ground. Maybe I'm just to old and am assuming we are talking about actual concrete when we say "street fights". You can slip on that same nasty stuff while standing and end up on the ground. That broken glass on the floor? It was either a glass or bottle, which means its slippery, liquid contents are now on the floor waiting for you to slip on it... There are walls, barstools, etc. for me to slam your head into while standing also. Dangers abound, just as they do on the ground. And actually, I probably have a better chance of finding something to slam your head into than we do of landing on broken glass.
Flying Tiger Posted September 7, 2004 Posted September 7, 2004 At my school (my high school that is) after the usual verbal assault and out flung arms, one guy goesto grab the other and I guess throw him down. It rarly ever works however, usually the two guys are doing a football-style push/shove session. Of course there are a few who actually throw punches, but its usually the clinch. I know one thing however, if someone tried that on me, I would light up thier groin and ribs with my knee. The greatest clarity is profound silence.
47MartialMan Posted September 7, 2004 Posted September 7, 2004 I believe, that versitility makes a verstile martial artist..... The more you learn/know, the better you are, pending the situation.
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