The Final Say: GRAPPLING VS STRIKING

[White Warlock]

Well, there's also a reference to being like water in Sun Tzu's Art of War, which precedes Confucius.

 

I suppose all the ol' masters were into soiling themselves, eh?

[SevenStar]

I don't really think the one strike works either, if you watch boxing, UFC, pride, k-1, or NHB fights no one has ever that I have seen thrown one punch and knocked the guy out. Even in the ones without gloves. I just think it's impractical.

 

I agree with your post. to address this though, it has happened at least twice, if memory serves correct - once in ufc and once in pride.

[Red Triangle student]

White Warlock, I think you have a point. Like you say, we are not built to be able to move like water. But as you say we can do things mentally with our mind. If you approach things weith your mind then it can become easier and more simpler to understand.

 

So, Bruce's analogies may have been cute, but thet were very accurate!

[Drunken Monkey]

...sigh...

 

some people don't read posts properly....

 

they were NOT his analogies.

 

also, originally, they were about mental approach

 

but good ol' bruce butchered them to fit his 'teachings'.

 

if you want to read chinese philosophy, go read confucius.

[DaCowboy]

I think you all are taking the meaning to literal. It doesn't refer to you moving like water, it is stating that water adapts. Water is the philosophical equivalent of perfection (in my humble opinion).

 

Also, I don't think he butchered the statement to fit his style. The teachings of all the great philosophiers can fit into almost any aspect of life. I quote the The Tao Teh Ching and The Unfettered Mind all the time. But that doesn't mean I stole those quotes, does it?

[White Warlock]

I think you all are taking the meaning to literal.

You all?

[wing chun kuen man]

In my school references are made to water all the time. The "softness", "the wave", finding the gap and "rushing in"; etc. The water principle/philosophy were part of the chinese martial arts long before Bruce Lee applied them in his ideas and concepts.

 

Wing Chun Kuen Man

[cross]

I don't really think the one strike works either, if you watch boxing, UFC, pride, k-1, or NHB fights no one has ever that I have seen thrown one punch and knocked the guy out. Even in the ones without gloves. I just think it's impractical.

 

I dont completely agree with this, one punch knock-outs do happen in these types of sporting contests.

 

I dont mean the guys face off then one throws a punch and the other guy is knocked out. There is usually a long exchange of techniques between the 2, but when the knockout actually occurs, it is generally brought about from a single technique.

 

In a self defence situation one strike is the 'ideal' way to end the conflict, and against a person who probably isnt expecting you to fight back, or attack in the first place (pre-emptive strike), it is possible that one strike will work to at least stun the person so you can escape, if not knock them out.

 

What im trying to say is dont rule something out or call it unpractical just because you dont understand the real purpose of it.

 

Obviously if the single strike doesnt work you have to be willing to continue with further attacks.

 

But the mentality of "one strike, one kill" should be used with every attack even if your doing a combination so that each technique has the potential to end it. Im sure that all of you do this already when performing techniques, but thats just the way karate-ka describe it.

[HAYASHI]

My view on the flogged debate:

 

Based on a street situation were the possiblity of further attack from another assailent.

 

If you grappel on the ground you are dead, the best idea is to grapple standing up if you are in that close and take them down while you are upright whilst putting them in some kind of lock.

 

If you strike only, thats fine but whent he distance is closed you must rememeber that 95% of people will grab each other once they are close, so if you strike you haev to adapt to knees and elbows and short range punches.

 

My opinion is that you must combine them all. But if you take him down you must stay up and in control, the best locks are ones that dont mean you loose both arms and a leg to peform it! Other wise you are as incompasitated as him.

 

Im not saying that i could flog royce gracie in a UFC comp...why....becasue there is the safe garuntee that none of my mates, no other person, no crowded pub or club or street is going to affect him on the ground. In the street you must be incontrol that means him on the ground and you up. If you get taken to the ground by them you must have some sort of grappling knowledge to defend yourself true but the key word is some.

 

I train Karate under Hayashi Shitoryu but my personal instructor has a 1st dan in judo a 3rd dan in Kyokushin karate before he switched to hayashi. To me we get taught the speed and technical parts from hayashi mixed with full contact sparring and conditioning of kyokushin and the self defenec and grappling principals of judo.

 

It is not about styles or striking arts vs grappling it is about being able in all areas so you can adapt to each situation.

 

You face off, the guy goes to punch you in a crowded bar, you block it and strike back one punch then a knee then an elbow he grabs onto you as he is going down and you break his grip from you with a wrist lock whislt footsweeping him or throwing him and he hits the deck, as he lands you pull his arm over your knee into a nice lock and finish him off with a few hits or not depending on how far you want to tack it because you also have him in a lock of some sorts.

 

DONT GO ON THE GROUND UNLESS YOU GET TAKEN DOWN AS YOU ARE OPEN TO ANY ATTACK WITHOUT DEFENCE.

 

get a club (any club ) that teaches both techniques i beilieve prominent striking focus with self defence and grappling covered as an extra edge. Do you think that if Oyama got taken on the ground he wuold just keep punching? no he would grapple as well. And do you think that royce gracie would battle for 90min on the floor of a packed bar while he tried to lock you up?

[Flying Tiger]

I agree with Hayashi. You need to do what is appropriate for the moment. If I get into a fight with someone who is clearly very skilled with standing up and exchanging blows, then I'll want to work my way into the inside and grapple. And the opposite holds true also. You just have to adapt as needed. Also, some people just pick up on certain things easier. For example, I used to take Ju-jitsu, and I thought I was fairly good, but when I got into a fight at school, I discovered I was throwing more punches and kicks. After that I started taking Tang Soo Do to get more ability with my preferred style. I still practice my Ju-jitsu, but I would rather use hard contact striking.