Kyokushin vs Traditional Karate. Cold Hard Facts!!!!

[Profacci]

Let's be honest folks. I appreciate all the replies to this subject, but I am getting nothing more than opinions in favor of the style that the reply-e practices.

 

Kyokushin is a Fighting Art more than a Martial Art, and to those who understand the difference the following will be easy to follow.

 

I have trained in other styles of Karate in the past just to get a feel for the other variations that are out there, and to better understand them from experience and not from a Forum conversation. These include Shotokan, Kenpo, Shindenkan, and Goju.

 

I will be the first to admit that all of the forementioned styles I gained respect for. They all had similar Kata, had similar if not identical kicks, punches, throws, sweeps etc. The one thing that seperated us from them was not what we trained in, rather how we trained. Kyokushin emphasizes (overly sometimes) a harsh training regimen that consists of primarily hard basics for warm ups, hard full speed drills, severe emphasis on technique and the physics behind them, full contact sparring at low speed for technique and high speed for ring experience, body conditioning for impact absorbtion, Sanchin for endurance and mental toughness and Kata. At no time are pads of any kind allowed for multiple reasons. Punching (both closed fist and open hand to the face and body) kicking, and throwing are the focal points!! Yet, we do in fact train in multiple grappling and manipulation aspects. While they are not the STRONG POINTS of Kyokushin, they ARE part of the training and have been so long as I know of. YES we do use elbows, knees and just about anything that can be projected from the body. Kyokushin does allow any and all kicks and knees to the head, as well as any desired hand or leg technique to the body. The point of a Kyokushin match is to quickly, effectively, and unquestionably knock out the opponent. Not to score points and go on for rounds. Having explained a bit about the "Art" of Kyokushin I can now tell you why it differs from "Traditional" Karate. Most other systems (with the exception of MT and Goju) train for sport and do not for the most part require a strict and harsh training regimen. Most sytems tend to teach for the art and preach the importance of not having to use force to deal with force. I spent many months training with these systems learning their techniques and although I got to understand many techniques in depth, we were not allowed to put them to use. We were just "told" that they would work. I think most of you will agree thatin order to know what works for an individual, you must learn, practice, and put to practical use each and every technique to better understand what works for you. No 2 people can assume that they can both use a technique effectively and in the same situation seeing that they are both different and will react differently. I really did appreciate what I learned from these other guys and I respect them tremendously.

 

That being said, I also learned that I prefer the reality and harshness that only in Kyokushin I have found. Kyokushin means "Ultimate Truth" and that is what we strive for. No, we are not allowed to punch to the head in a bout, but then again I think most are thankful for that fact. If we are devestating without the hand strikes to the head, it is only better that we don't cross into that realm. Well, in the dojo atleast. Do we have a better understanding now? It is, what it is.

 

Think about what happens if Kyokushin fighters are allowed to fight MT guys under their rules, but without the gloves. We don't use gloves because we don't head hunt. If they take off the gloves and fight by our rules and we are allowed to strike the head as they did in the days of Oyama in Japan and Korea, there is no competition. 5 Kyokushin top fighters vs 5 MT top fighters and the result was KK4 MT1. Then again the rules have changed. Gee, how convenient. I respect all styles, but lean towards those in our realm. The Fighting Arts!! I just don't like seeing true Martial Artist beeing mislead by your run of the mill corner dojo that just wants to claim a stake in their city's black belt production line. You know what I mean. Now, Any Comments folks?

 

By the way, My true respect to the following arts as they have so much to offer for their students in my experience and in that of many around me....

 

MT

 

Goju

 

Wing Chun

 

Brazilian JuJitsu

 

Sambo

 

Shindenkan

 

Shotokan

 

Chinese Kenpo

 

Strong Tiger Kung Fu

[Karateka]

The only thing I could say is that if you find that certain styles you have trained in only teach you about not using techniques and assuming techniques would work, isn't good teaching. Karate, in my opinion, is a fighting art. The techniques, the bunkai, the conditioning were all meant to teach the people of Okinawa to defeat their oppressors. Karate-do, the martial art, taught the philosophy of living correctly. I respect Kyokushin practitioners as I respect all. Both have the same goals, to fight. Granted, their methods of application are different. Karate is chosen to be done in Kata form. This has been explained to me that because if the Japanese saw what the Okinawans were practicing as threatening to their hold over Okinawa, there would have been a quick stop to it. Oyama went into the wilderness to perfect his fighting art. In the end, a good fighter in Kyokushin and a good Karateka would have excellent techniques. The proof of the better martial artist would come through the person themselves, not on the martial art.

 

I too found a problem with the lack of opportunity to test out the techniques. My solution was to find a training partner who I could work with and learn how things worked. That and understanding Bunkai has given me new insight into Kata's and techniques I used to find irrelevant.

[ramymensa]

Profacci, I respect your POV, though I can't agree etirely. Still I don't understand why you had to make a double thread

[Dijita]

I agree for the most part, but I think you over exagerate just a fraction (we don't kill each other in class). Yes, in a tournement the object of the Kyokushin fighter is to try and KO their opponent, or at least hurt them enough that they go down and can't continue to fight. However this is for open tournement rules. There's still the color belt divisions in which head kicks have to be controlled. We're still allowed to attack the body as hard as we want however. (This is for IKO 1 anyways). This is just a way to introduce the practitioner into the open division.

 

I agree though that Kyokushin is different in it's training techniques in that we do make hard realistic contact in class. Sometimes we put the gloves and shin pads on when it gets closer to a tournement just to reduce the risk of injuring someone before the tournement. We do TONS of bag work too.

 

Kyokushin is a fighting art and it is evident in the training.

 

I too respect the other styles, but I prefer Kyokushin over the others. Obviously as I wouldn't be training in it. Everyone has their preferences and it's just natural to have pride in the style that they train in.

[cathal]

I don't know which dojos you studied in for these other styles, however it is impressive you bothered to check them out. The dojo I go to doesn't focus on the sport aspect, thank goodness. But I do agree on one point that the system doesn't necessarily make the fighter; its the person that makes the fighter.

 

Case in point, I've seen a boxer defeat a BB, and an untrained fighter defeat a trained boxer. So perhaps that is a honest truth you must admit to yourself as well.

[Dijita]

I don't think he is trying to argue what style is better. I think what he is trying to say that Kyokushin is more geared towards training to fight because of it's hard style, or in other words realistic contact.

[Profacci]

Not saying that any one style is better than the other, simply giving a comparison of my experience in different Karate Systems. My preference is still the harder contact, and to be honest, it's probably because Kyokushin was the first style I was introduced to. That is why I trained with other styles, to get a grasp for what it was that they did different. In reality, they were very similar. I always recommend that people try another style just for the sheer knowledge and experience. Never abandon your art, but wander off in search of knowledge is good. I gained some great techniques that I now use in kumite from some of these other styles. Dijita, we do tons of bag work too. Thanks for reminding me. No we don't kill each other in class, but I was refering to the fighting that takes place in the full contact matches. Although class kumite gets pretty rough amongst the higher ranks.

 

USA USA USA USA!!!

 

Just a patriot

[Profacci]

Dijita and anyone who is interested. There will be a MT sponsored event that will feature 8 or more KK fighters in Van Nuys California. It is being held at a MT training facility and they have welcomed us and other KK fighters to join their Saurday Night Fights. It will be GREAT!!! if anyone is interested or lives in the general area let me know and I will post the details. Yes, I too will be one of the fighters. Cheer me on.

[turonaga]

wait a minute where's my post? i know i answered on this thread. by the way, there are also other styles of karate and martial arts that practice full contact no protection all the way. i respect kyukoshin. actually i beliv its more on the system rather then the practitioner

[EvilTed]

Is Van Nuys in SoCal ?

 

Are you part of LA Kyokushin?

 

We've challenged LA Kyokushin to fight us for the past two years and they keep making excuses and never showing up

 

We WILL be taking part in an open, full contact tournament in San Diego in August against Seido Kai Kan, Karate Juku, Kyokushin and World Oyama.

 

You should bring some fighters and make it more interesting for us.

 

Last year we took 1st, 2cnd and 3rd place.

 

Osu!

 

ET