Kyokushin vs Other Karate Styles. Cold Hard Facts!!!!!

[Dark Shogun]

A typical attacker will not attack your soft areas but you should still train to attack theirs.

 

Years of hard conditioning can be felled by a simple attack to a non conditioned area.

 

I think that hard kumite is great and it should be done by all unarmed MAists every so often, but it's not the 'bees knees' of MA training as some make it out to be. You would be much more effective if you have the other elements of MA training too.

 

However, you may have these elements, I've never seen a kyokushin training session before, I've only seen tournaments on video.

[Meguro]

I've been wondering how many critics of Kyokushin have ever practiced it or seen a competition, or how many of the members on this have forum have used their ma training in a life/death situation. Fortunately, I have not had the misfortune to need my training outside the dojo. If I wre seriously concerned about my safety on the street I would move, get a dog or buy a gun.

 

Before taking up Kyokushin I had already earnined a bb in TKD and studied other styles such as Shukokai, Judo, and for a couple years Kendo and Iaido. For the people who question how hard the training in Kyokushin is, it is harder than all the other MA I studied (To be fair, Kendo and Iaido aren't physically demanding).

 

I've competed in Judo, TKD and Kyokushin tournaments and have to say that Kyokushin tournaments are the toughest of these. At the very elite level of competition, Kyokushin Karateka possess a combination of excellent technique, physical fitness, toughness and agression. Whereas point fighters seem to rely on speed only(I'm simplifying here for the sake of argument), Kyokushin Karateka, must be able to contend with power and pain as well. Pain is a dimension often dismissed, but is a true test of your fighting spirit.

 

It is this fighting spirit, that I think helps one in the street-not the flash technique, grappling, etc. Anybody can get sucker punched or kicked in the squishy bits and go down. No amount of preparation will overcome the lucky shot. But maybe, if you can take the other guy's best shot and still have more of your own to give, you'll do alright.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Meguro

[KungFuMan]

Meguro,

 

Agreed. A lot of the times the winner is the one with the bigger fighting spirit.

 

KungFuMan

[Dark Shogun]

Grappling will not help on the street? What if someone grabs you? It would help then.

 

Flash technique? When did I say flash technique? I said grappling and attacking soft targets. I do not consider this to be 'flash technique' rather, I consider it to be 'effective technique'. Flash technique in my opinion is impractical technique that looks impressive.

 

I do not question that kyokushin is hard training. However, hard training does not necessesarily make effective street MA. Fighting spirit largely makes effective street MA.

 

Anyone of any style can have fighting spirit, whether thay be hard fighters, point fighters, grapplers, kendoka, whatever. Fighting spirit is not limited to any style.

[Meguro]

DS, I wasn't singling you out nor did I call grappling "flash technique." In fact, I agree with your definition of the term.

 

I was merely stating that any ma will have a number of techniques to select from. Strikers will strike and grapplers will grapple. What may determine the outcome of a street fight may hinge not on any magic technique but on fighting spirit.

 

I distinguish fighting spirit from competitiveness. Point fighters, kata competitors, and kendoka try to defeat their opponents by a superior accumulation of points. The points are often won pain-free with little consequence of injury. Of course there is a desire to win, competitiveness, but at what cost? Kyokushin karateka risk pain and injury to win. They must contend with the fear, with the continuous attack that doesn't stop so that points can be awarded. They must contend with opponents who may be 50 lbs heavier and half a foot taller who won't be pulling punches.

 

Kyokushin karate is not simply practicing a style specific skill set. It's about overcoming adversity; about getting knocked down seven times and getting up eight. It's about continuing the fight after fear, fatigue and pain have drained you of your skills. This is my definition of fighting spirit. This is what I believe may tip the balance in favor of the Kyokushin karateka.

 

I'm not asserting that this fighting spirit is exclusive to kyokushin-just that it doesn't come easy and it's not obtained by points.

[y2_sub]

i TOTALLY agree with Meguro .. the thing that all people underesteamate is what he said :

 

" fear, fatigue and pain have drained you of your skills " and thats exactlly like in street fight , all of these elements exist .. and more .. that dosn't mean that training might prepare you 100% to a street situation , i am saying that hard contact style resume much of the elements in street fight.... by the way , grappling is important as well , but WHY in hell must i let any one grapple me ???? well if he managed to do that , i'll use my aikido skillz ,lol....

[Dark Shogun]

Different MAists build fighting spirit different ways.

 

Hard kumite is an exelent way to build fighting spirit.

 

Kata can also build fighting spirit. I'm not talking about competition kata, I'm talking about kata training where you perform many kata to the best of your ability, when your too tired do another one.

 

You can build fighting spirit while doing your basics, in fact you should start building fighting spirit from the moment you bow to start you training session.

 

It is also possible that one can build fighting spirit

 

with point fighting, although it dosen't do it for me.

 

One thing my sensei says is "never give up". If you give up you are guarenteed to lose. We do kumite continuously and get up not matter what happens. We are awarded no points and usually no winner in declaired. Just keep fighting.

 

PS, about grappling, you would never let someone grapple you but they might do it anyway. I certainly let no one grapple me.

[y2_sub]

your welcomed Meguro !!!!!

 

I enjoyed reading your post " Dark Shogun ".. cause your the only one that ever aggreid with me thal real Kata is not about competition kata .. it's about performing kata the best you can , and giving a \\* piece of your spirit while doing so *\\ .. that might help a lot in building fighting spirit ..

[mmafighter]

I read this and have come to the conclusion that we can all agree "different senarios different winners" I understand how some could get defensive over these statements. Muay Thai is a kickboxing martial sport. Karate is a self defense martial sport. All have their strengths and weaknesses.

[y2_sub]

AnonymousOne said in an early post tha he can tell all about someone just from watching him performing the basics and kata ...

if you go to dojo , any dojo , you will c a lot of people performing great moves , but are they good in a ring ?? not necessarily , face it , there are many other factors like controlling your fear , the fatigue , the PAIN , getting hit and hit back , etc ....

About kata , there are many great schools who have world class athletits , and do not perform any form of kata , in fact they don't have any form of basics stances that are usually used in shotokan and other karate schools , i never saw a MT payer doin' kata . so kata is not that important , after all imaginary oponents don't hit back ...

so you can not tell anything about someone unless you step with him in the ring