Kyokushin vs Other Karate Styles. Cold Hard Facts!!!!!

[Treebranch]

Lots of macho man kinda talk. Pride has no place in combat.

[AnonymousOne]

 

I totally disagree. Granted though there are a lot of rubbish schools in the west, but I have seen some people train in them very hard and develop a lot of skill.

 

Pride in a school is nice but often unrealistic

 

Dont misunderstand the argument here. We said certain styles are better than others, not that the other styles are useless/ineffective. No ones debating whether you know of people who have developed good skills in martial arts deemed lesser to others.

 

Could you give more insight as to why you disagree? For instance, lets take a style like Tae Kwon Do and compare it to something such as Wrestling or Judo. All 3 are Olympic sports and *arguably* have roughly the same level of popularity.

 

How could you explain that Wrestling and Judo have had MANY successfull fighters in MMA competition and TKD has no where near as much success? How can something such as Muay Thai, which is FAR less popular than virtually any karate style, have so many more strong competitors?

 

Therein lies your problem, you are assuming that contest with rules is a true test of actual ability

[Meguro]

. . .

 

Therein lies your problem, you are assuming that contest with rules is a true test of actual ability

 

Rules and standards are the only way to accurately test anything. Ignoring the story of the tortoise and the hare, races are won by the fastest. Whoever wins a competition is the better competitor. If there is a statistically significant number of winners who have the same style, school, coach, etc., one can conclude that there is a causal relationship.

 

Anyway, I'm curious what the op thinks of daidojuku karate. Daidojuku was founded by a former kk champion who also had a yondan in Judo. Daidojuku tournament fighters sport head gear and knuckle protectors but otherwise look like and fight like kyokushinkai karateka. However, punching to the head is allowed as well as groin strikes, throwing, and grappling, but no ground & pound. It seems to make a complete system, kk, more complete.

[AnonymousOne]

Rules and standards are the only way to accurately test anything.

 

How does that work in war or a street fight?

[Snakeeel]

Not very well.

[Meguro]

Rules and standards are the only way to accurately test anything.

 

How does that work in war or a street fight?

 

Just what are you testing in war or a street fight? Seems to me that war and street fights aren't about testing but are about violence, dominance, survival.

 

How do you prepare for violent encounters? You try to make training as realistic as possible. Hard fighting competitions, like Muay Thai, Kyokushin and its various offshoots (Enshin, Daidojuku,Seidokaikan), and some others come as close to the violence one might find on the "street," certainly more than point fighting competitions. People who train in hard styles have no illusions about how much power their technique has or how much abuse their bodies can take.

 

Some boast about how many boards, tiles, and bats they can break with one deadly blow. Impressive, but hardly an indication of how well you would fare on the, here's that word. . .street. As Bruce said, "Boards don't hit back." On the street, you will not have the opportunity to take your best zenkutsudachi, take a couple deep breaths, unleash your blood curdling kiai and throw that killer punch. The best Kyokushin karateka are phenomenal breakers of inanimate objects. Ironically, their opponents rarely fold after the first shot (we don't pull kicks and punches in competition). With proper conditioning the human body can be quite resilient.

 

Perhaps this is the real difference between Kyokushin karate and other styles-self knowledge. It's not that Kyokushin karateka are the best technicians, the strongest , most aggressive, blah, blah, blah. It's that we get behind the wheel and take it to the red-line, whereas others may keep their revs below 3,000.

[AnonymousOne]

Hmmm well in my 41 years experience here and in Japan I cant say that Kyokushin stands out above the rest.

 

In fact here in my country in competition Kyokushin has been everything but outstanding.

 

Our school is a hard style as well and since karate was widely practised here since the 1950's Kyokushin hasnt done well at all. Not that I consider contest as a true means of a test but some seem to. If it is a measure then one would have to ask how many All Japan Champs has Kyokushin actually achieved. How many Japan Karate Federation endorsed competitions have they won in comparison to other schools. I see no trend pointing to Kyokushin being anything special and especially not in my country. Our school is one of the oldest in our country and totally dominated competition for years. In fact between two of my teachers, they held National Champion for 10 years in a row. Maybe I should tell people our school is better than all the rest? Haha

 

I admire your pride in your school I must say that, but I dont accept its the best school. I have been to Japan, I spent two whole years there (1982-1984) and got a good look at the whole karate scene over there. I visited Kyokushin, Gojuyu, Shotokan and many other schools in Tokyo and also Shorin, Kempo, Gojuryu in Okinawa.

 

This is starting to sound like a Protestant/Catholic or Chev/Ford debate Haha

[Meguro]

Anonymousone,I'm enjoying this exchange, and respect the 41 years you've put into your style. I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if you indicated what style you do. While I'm enjoying Kyokushin karate now, I've been around long enough and trained in other styles extensively to know that there is no perfect style- just guys/gals who try real hard.

 

I should mention that I'm very curious about Daidojuku. If I were 20 years younger I'd like to give it a try. It really does look like the most well rounded style with lots of pressure-testing. I encourage you to google daidojuku, find the honbu site and check out their videos and let me know what you think.

 

Every style has its All Japan Championships, and world Chamionships, perhaps you weren't aware. The best kyokushin karateka fight in kyokushin sponsored events. Competitors come from all over the world to fight at the Kyokushin All Japan. The strongest competitors are currently from Russia, Brazil and Japan. Note that there are factions within Kyokushin that have their own All Japan.

 

You mentioned kyokushinkai karateka doing poorly in your competitions. Kyokushinkai karateka don't usually fight in unaffiliated competitions. You actually have to obtain permission from the organization to participate in unaffiliated events. Nicholas Pettas is currently in the process of obtaining permission to participate in K-1 again, after recovering form his injury. Don't know who you saw representing kk in your tournaments so can't comment further.

[AnonymousOne]

I do a style called Chidokan. Its a derivative of Shotokan and is hardstyle.

 

The founder pulled out of Shotokan when Funakoshi died after training for 10 years directly under Funakoshi himself.

 

Its noted for its deep stances (deeper than Shotokan) and fanatical observance of tidy technique. Its a very tough school. Its not well known out of Japan, Australia and New Zealand. They are not ones for marketing campaigns and purely rely on their reputation to have students.

 

The founder Kancho Sasaki introduced 15 new kata of his own but all the slightly modified kata of Shotokan are taught.

 

In my mind its a mix of Shotokan and the brutality of Army special ops boot camp.

 

The head teacher here, in his own right, is a master in the old sense of the word. He was awarded a gold medal for Karate excellence by the Japanese, something that has not been repeated since.

 

The school has been successful in the All Japan champs.

 

Sasaki, although not pubically stated too often, because of his senior rank has a great deal of influence within the JKA.

 

He also is senior to the iminent Hirokazu Kanazawa 10th Dan, who won the All Japan champs 3 years in a row and one time won while having a strapped up broken arm. So in terms of Japan, hes a "big wig".

 

Not many have heard about Sasaki mainly because he is very humble and takes a low profile

[Meguro]

Ahh, that explains a lot. I have several shotokan friends. Whenever we get together for drinks we always have lively discussions on the merits of our respective styles. We never seem to see eye to eye, but always part friends.

 

Since I've trained in different styles, I'm quite willing to question whatever orthodoxy a style promotes. Others who have invested quite a lot of time, identity, etc, in their style find it difficult to challenge conventional thought. In so far as this is a forum whose participants practice many styles and not just Shotokan, or Chidokan, or Kyokushin, it'd be nice to learn from one another. I'm tired of the style-based slagging that goes on, and try to avoid it. Sometimes it gets away from me. Oops.

 

 

 

Did you google daidojuku yet?