What title does your instructor have?

[Gumbi]

First off, Im sorry if Matt Thorton's words came across as a little harsh (I just posted what was said), but to be honost I've had that mentality before I read that interview with him-I bow down before no man and expect no one to bow to me either- he simply had the best words to express it.

 

Now, obviously, its ridiculous to suggest that ALL TMA's or ALL sifus/masters hold that mentality. Now Ive met many more martial artists who were masters in their respective style and were as Matt pointed out, however, I've also met plenty of people who were perfectly normal and humble people who were absent of ego.

 

Forget for a moment that hes trashing the entire way of respect for traditional martial arts and try to understand what hes saying: you have a lot more faith in a technique thats taught to you when the person teaching it can do it effortlessly himself. For instance, we dont always agree with everything my instructor shows. Sometimes he'll show something and you'll shrug your shoulders and say "I dont think that would work" at which point he'll say "ok, lets prove it." And he'll literally line up about 5-6 people of varying skill levels and say "you know what Im going to do- DONT let me do it." The respect is there because we're showing up and working as hard as we can.

 

My instructor is from Brazil, but I regularly hang out with him, as well as his brother and friend (who are both exceptional brown belts). By giving titles, I seriously think you draw a line between the instructor and the students. If your master/sifu still actively competes and has no fear of doing so- then hes one of those guys who has the fighter's humility and isnt afraid to compete in front of his students. Granted, not everyone is into competition, but if he cant prove what hes teaching, he shouldn't be teaching it.

[Quest33]

Gumbi, I definately think that you have come from a culture of martial arts where you have witnessed this type of mentality in instructors.. I must say that I have seen it myself. But tend to think that even if an instructor doesn't "deserve" to be called a particular title it shines better on the student to refer to the instructor by title than for that student to issue disrespect. That is the essense of the Japanese/Asian culture that I have been exposed to and I respect it. They have something there that many Americans (I being an American for one) don't have. Do you remember the quakes in Japan a few years ago that left thousands waiting in line for food and assistance? I remember the commentaries surrounding the fact that no one jumped out of line, no one cut or pushed. They had mutual respect and value for their fellow human beings.

 

I would rather call an Instructor by title to show humility and humanity in myself than to not have those qualities. I am not talking about groveling humility here. I am talking about the type of humility that shows care and regard for another human being.... Christ like humility.

[DLopez]

For instance, we dont always agree with everything my instructor shows. Sometimes he'll show something and you'll shrug your shoulders and say "I dont think that would work" at which point he'll say "ok, lets prove it." And he'll literally line up about 5-6 people of varying skill levels and say "you know what Im going to do- DONT let me do it." The respect is there because we're showing up and working as hard as we can.

 

Let's stop and think about this for a second...

 

On the one hand, you are looking to your instructor to teach you something you do not yet know, right?

 

Then, when he shows you, you express doubt that what he's showing you is valid, and basically question his knowlege, as if you know better than he does.

 

But wait!!! Isn't the whole reason you are there is because you originally believed he can teach you something you don't know?

 

Only after having it demonstrated on you, do you then believe that he indeed knows what he's talking about.

 

I guess I don't get it,... exactly when will you be satisfied that what he's teaching you will work, and you will take it without question or making him prove it on you every time?

 

Now, even in my MA, there are techniques that probably wouldn't work if I try it on someone shorter or taller than me, but there are other techniques that will, so I must learn all of them whether I'll be able to apply them all the time or not.

 

I guess you should be very happy your instructor doesn't care that you question him all the time, but here's one thing to ponder...

 

Maybe he does care? Maybe if you were respectful to him and didn't question his ability and knowledge (which is essentially what you are doing), perhaps he might be inclined to show you much more than he has to?

[Drunken Monkey]

that's also where some of the issue lies.

 

isn't there some truth in that you don't feel like you should call anyone by a title, be it sifu, sensei or whatever?

 

do you really believe that martial arts sifus and senseis just stand issuing orders?

 

don't you think that in our class our sifu would show something to us and then have us try it?

 

don't you think taht's a little naive not to mention totally ignorant?

 

don't you think that in some styles where feel is the most important aspect he make sure we'd know what the real technique feels like?

 

don't you think that the guys who teach us, our sifus and senseis can perform the techniques effortlessly?

 

the 'not taking part in tournaments' argument in not really a valid one because it has been established that the ring is not the best place to judge arts.

 

my previous sifus have worked doors and one is a police inspector in hk.

 

what they know and teach and use, works.

 

i know they work because they have made them work in situations that are more real than anything you can experience in a ring.

 

do my sifus deserve the title?

 

you decide.

[Red J]

Granted, not everyone is into competition, but if he cant prove what hes teaching, he shouldn't be teaching it.

 

I guess it matters by what you mean by prove it. Mike Tyson was coached by Cus D'Amato (who had coached Floyd Patterson many years before that) and Cus was not in any shape to prove anything to Mike. That had nothing to do with his ability to produce champions. With the "prove" theory you would have most people retiring from teaching as they move out of their physical primes. Of course there are more ways to prove something than by demonstrating it personally.

 

Now granted, I could have totally taken your statement out of context and put words in your mouth just to keep this thread alive. I understand what I think you mean which is that it is desirable to have someone who has the knowledge and can apply it, therefore validating the techniques as they teach. Or something like that.

[TangSooGuy]

Well, I do agree that instructors need to be able to lead by example, and can't just stand there and do nothing...

 

and it's ok to question, up to a point. The line is where it becomes an outright challenge to comepetence and authority in the class..

 

Anyway, I've sparred with my instructor more times than I can count. I have no reason to doubt his abilities.

 

I do remember one time when we were practicing one-steps, and people didn't really understand why we did them. he decided to demonstrate how they really worked...

 

So, he had me come up front and said "Try to really hit me."

 

I was thinking "Do I have to?"

 

Let's just say I never even saw him move, and my feet were in the air over my head before I even had time to think about how to counter anything...and this was after I had tested for 4th Dan...he should be up for 6th Dan soon.

 

so, yeah, I have no problems calling him a "master"

[Fenris-wolf]

It's funny how in many of these discussions there are always people who feel the need to make things black and white.

 

Whether you call your instructor sensei, master, doctor, sir or bob, you know whether they are good at what they do, whether they are arrogant, whether they are deserving of their title.

 

If you find them arrogant or don't like calling anyone by a title, find a new dojo.

 

It's strange, I find the topic interesting but it always seems like it turns into a bit of an "us and them" issue for some.

 

Life is shades of grey!

[Drunken Monkey]

what i find funny is how someone can use this 'use of title' thing as a basis to the argument that my martial art training is better than your martial art training....

[WolverineGuy]

Amen to that.

[Mart]

here, here old boy.