"1 versus many" battles

[sonduck]

I only did it 5 or 6 times in the dojang (as a game). My strategy was: a lot of footwork and a lot of shouts (these scare the opponent ). In real life I think that I'll run away as fast as possible .

[aefibird]

In real life I think that I'll run away as fast as possible .

 

Yeah, in a situation like that, RUN-DO would come out as most people's favoured Martial Arts style... (closely followed by Shotgun-Do).

[Drunken Monkey]

we had a 'game' we used to play.

 

it was more of a footwork thing.

 

the idea was that you would do your best to move out of the way and remain facing, centred and in a position to defend yourself...

 

nothing like actuall trying to fight though.

[Treebranch]

Just read on Musashi Miyamoto's life, he was attacked by many and killed them.

[White Warlock]

So did Batman

[Treebranch]

So are you saying Musashi didn't really do the things written about him? Or is it just that you can't believe anyone is that talented? Don't be afraid he's dead.

[Reklats]

He lived in the 1600's. He's like the japanese Paul Bunyan.

[Treebranch]

So only your national historical figures are real, right? I guess since you wouldn't know anything about multiple attacker training you think it would be impossible. He fought with a sword in each hand a was 6'1'' which was huge back then.

[White Warlock]

Just wanted to clarify that my "Batman" comment was in jest and not meant to be derogatory. As to Miyamoto Musashi, i'm somewhat a fan of his work, "The Book of Five Rings." However, i do not recall any instance where he fought over four opponents simultaneously.

 

Now, when i first saw this thread, i had made the erroneous assumption this request was for 'unarmed' scenarios. So, when you brought up Musashi, the thought came to me that Musashi was wielding weapons, which dramatically changes the dynamics of a multi-opponent scenario and was not applicable to the initial request. Looking back, i see the initial poster did not specify.

 

Okay, enough of that...

 

I was working in mental health for a few years and the standard means to deal with patients, or would-be patients, was to tackle them enmasse. Most of the health workers were ill-trained, and thus performed a somewhat haphazard mob scene when attempting to deal with out-of-control patients. In truth, i wasn't a health worker. I was a computer dude that was constantly on the floor, but had volunteered to assist and train, and thus became certified and an active participant (i simply didn't like watching these n00bs struggling to deal with the patients and getting hurt all the time). Those whose job it was to deal with violent incidents were called mental health workers. Psychiatrists and nurses were not required to assist, and most preferred not to. This created a bit of a problem sometimes, with some psyche nurses knowing full well they could treat the patients like crap and not have to deal with the consequences of their actions. It's a rather unfair situation for the health workers to be in, primarily because patients are already considered 'mentally unfit,' therefore if they hurt anyone, and is taken to court for it... the 'insanity' plea is automatically accepted. Health workers, on the other hand, are in a double-jeopardy situation. Not only can they be tried for assault and battery if they use excessive force, but they can also lose their job and be prevented from ever working in the health industry again... regardless of whether they get convicted or not. In fact, a warranted complaint is sufficient. An additional important note is that many of the patients i experienced... were actually quite sane. Indeed, some were in the center as a way of avoiding going to prison... so don't start visualizing all the patients as 'ineffective.' Some were actually quite dangerous and had a long record of putting health workers in the hospital.

 

Anyway, standard training shows to avoid the patient's face (spitting, biting, etc), as such, most health workers just sort of dogpile (a note, thier also not supposed to be 'on top' of the patients... but some rules are meant to be broken) and then each dedicates themselves to a specific portion of the body (arms, legs, torso, head). After that, straps are applied or the person is carried, by the limbs and torso, to a seclusion room.

 

Of the witnessed and participated incidents, it is usually one health worker... most often the one with more talent or bulk, that acts first and ends up leading the assault. Most everyone surrounds the patient and then the gutsy (or stupid) worker acts. Sometimes its the patient that rushes, in which case the lead is usually the one who has to deal with the initial assault, while the rest start scrambling for position and opportunity behind and to the side of the patient.

 

A common misnomer is that health workers often use heavily padded blankets to deal with hostile patients. I say it is a misnomer, because it is rare that workers get the opportunity to even chase a friggin' blanket. In almost all cases, it's happening right then and there. No time for makeup and eyeliner.

 

Okay, so here's one incident (plenty more where this came from, but not really wanting to write a pile of short stories at the moment):

• A patient was swinging a heavy belt around with intent. About 15 or so health workers were all standing there for what seemed like minutes, unwilling to pounce for fear of getting hurt. This was my first day on the floor, certified to intervene. I initially was going to let someone else lead, but... nobody was acting. So, on the swing of the belt, i charged in, took ahold of the patient's weapon arm and swung behind him. I then grabbed his other arm and held him restrained in a cross-like pose. A few seconds later, the health workers snapped out of it (many had not realized i was certified to intervene... others were simply too busy watching the show to remember that they had a job) and ganged on him, taking him down, then restraining him.

[delta1]

White Warlock, interesting story. I used to work in EMS, and had to deal with similar incidents, ranging from true psychological dementia, drug and alcohol or chemical induced dementia, and just plain criminal and/or angry people. Like you, we were limmited in what we could do,while they were pretty much free to do what they wanted. They could be charged after the fact, but usually could get off pretty easily. Since we often dealt with them before they were diagnosed and committed, we were not allowed to use any devices to restrain them. There were 'tricks of the trade', but it wasn't uncommon to end up in the back of an ambulance with one of them unrestrained. I think that's where I learned a lot of my deescalation skills!

 

But, the really interesting thing is when you have to take one of these patients down, working as part of a team with people who are untrained, or have not trained together. You learn real quickly that numerical superiority is no guarantee of success, as often your own team mates get in your way, or hold back when they should be helping. I was like you, usually the first one to go in ("Oh, look, there's delta1. He's stupid, let's let him handle this first.") I've had patients controled, or semicontroled, only to have someone come in to 'assist' and mess me up. Even had them grab me instead of the patient. Also had patients calmed down and then an assistant gets a little overzealouse, and you are suddenly back in the shite at close quarters. I had one real a-hole in the ambulance and calmed down, until my partner droped an oxygen bottle, regulator first,right square in the middle of his forehead. The guy yelled and fought for over an hour- when we got him into the ER we ended up with more cops than staff in there, and the on call doctor was late. We discussed quite a few scenarios to just shut this guy up (none of them legal), 'til I finally said to tell him if he didn't quiet down, I'd send my partner in with another oxygen bottle. She never forgave me for that remark- her husband was a State Patrolman, and with that many cops around, you can bet the story was retold and embellished many times, allways culminating with 'how we finally shut him up'.

 

One of the people I used to train and work out with was a prison guard. We were working on rear bear hugs once, and I asked him to attack me like he meant it and do what he'd normally do when applying a rear bear hug. A big guy, he slammed me hard from behind and hooked his left ankle around my left ankle, and we went straight to the ground on our sides- but with me wrapped up. Then, he just laid there and hollered for one of the cops (who also trained with us) to come help. That is how they are trained to do it in the prison system.

 

I know, these are a little off topic. But since you don't get a lot of gang members posting here, if you want multiple attack scenarios from the multiple side point of view, this is mostly what you'll get.