Taikyoku kata

[Ripper]

We do some funky variations too... mirror, backwards, backwards mirror, stepping away (spinning the other way on all turns) - great fun

 

Andy.

 

Great Andy, but why do you do that?

[renketsu]

Fun

 

Good for the memory too

 

Mirror katas are designed to help you work on techniques on the other side of your body... moot point on Taikyoku Shodan as it is already identical on both sides but it does allow you to try the spins the other way which has to be beneficial to balance etc

 

Backwards katas are really there for testing your knowledge of the moves... it's not as easy as it sounds

 

Backwards mirror is a combination of the above two.

 

Turning away is something that I believe is attributable to Kase Sensei and the WSKI (could be wrong tho). The spins are different... I dont think anyone would advocate spinning the way we do after the kiai in Taikyoku Shodan - going into an attack backwards then turning! In the other version you spin the other way (cant really explain this well) pivoting on the left leg and turning forwards not backwards (facing the way you turn rather than away from the way you turn).

 

All in all - its the same idea as having so many kata... different ways of training the same moves help to show different uses for them.

 

Andy.

[Ripper]

If you do it just for fun every now and then, I totally agree with you.

 

However, your other arguments I'm not so sure of.

 

If you want to work on other sides of your body you can use kihon.

 

Testing your knowledge of the kata.....hmm....best way to do that would be just the normal way.

 

Furthermore it is not a test requirement, so why waste time training this way (other than for fun)?

 

As you say, there are allready so many katas, so why not focus on training them the regular way?

[aefibird]

We do backwards and mirror kata occasionally in my dojo and it's a good bit of fun. Yes, you can practice balance, techniques etc through basics/kihon, but this is just another way to help students to 'get it', especially if you're taking a lesson full of kids. As for it not being a test requirement - well, it isn't but it doesn't necessarily waste time practicing kata like this. Just because something isn't a test requirement doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. If you go down that route, then you get into the mindset that everything that is done in lessons should be solely for testing purposes. We do sit ups, push ups etc regularly in my dojo - but they are not a requirement for testing. However the majority of people would agree that they're a useful training tool if used correctly. It can be the same with mirror and backwards kata.

[Picto]

We also pratice kata backwards at my dojo.

 

I agree that its mainly for fun but it get you thinking more about the kata and how each move ties in with the next.

[Ripper]

but this is just another way to help students to 'get it', especially if you're taking a lesson full of kids.

 

I don't mind variety in a training, especially for kids. I was talking about adults trying to improve their katas almost always in limited time. Variety is a good thing for kata, but it can also get too much, when you are talking about mirror, backwards, etc., etc. As I said, every now and then is OK.

 

The best way of 'getting it' is to break up a kata in pieces and work on a specific theme, be it speed, technique, or something else. Focus on that instead of walking backwards.

We do sit ups, push ups etc regularly in my dojo - but they are not a requirement for testing. However the majority of people would agree that they're a useful training tool if used correctly.

Sit and pushup aid your body to get stronger and quicker, so indirectly they will help you at your testing. Walking a mirror kata won't.

[aefibird]

Sit and pushup aid your body to get stronger and quicker, so indirectly they will help you at your testing. Walking a mirror kata won't.

 

As I said in my previous post, not everything in karate is there simply to be tested on. Yes, sit & push ups will help you for testing, but that's not the only reason they're done, or at least not in most dojo's. Same with the dojo's that do mirror/backwards kata. It can help with testing, by helping you to understand a kata more, but that's not all it's there for.

 

Karate isn't a race - it's not about cramming as much as possible into as short a space of time as possible. If it takes a person a year to really learn a kata then so be it. It doing that same kata mirrored helps them to understand it even more, then great.

 

In my dojo we don't practice mirror or backwards kata on a regular basis (that would be a little excessive), but I believe that they're a useful tool for training - for both children and adults - when used in conjunction with other training methods.

[Ripper]

In my dojo we don't practice mirror or backwards kata on a regular basis (that would be a little excessive), but I believe that they're a useful tool for training - for both children and adults - when used in conjunction with other training methods.

My point exactly.

doing that same kata mirrored helps them to understand it even more

I'm having trouble with this part. In what way can walking backwards/mirror make you understand a kata better?

[renketsu]

I will agree that backwards doesnt have too many applications and is only there to see if students can work out the sequencing of the kata - making them think like this is a useful idea on occasion!

 

Mirror kata is a good way of evening out the training on both sides of the body, try doing the crescent kick with roundhouse elbow with your left side rather than the right (as per H5 and BD) - this sequence is not done in any shotokan kata on the left side - so that must mean the idea is to reverse the kata to work the other side of your body. Oh and we dont walk through mirror kata... we do them full pace as per the non-mirror version

 

Not all kata moves are done in basics (certainly not in our clubs) - how many students have ever the above sequence in basics? Try it - it isnt that easy or natural to do!

 

Do any of you practise kata starting at wierd angles rather than facing the same wall every time? I find that a lot of students learn a kata by working out which wall they face for particular moves rather than thinking about which direction they turn (180 clockwise etc) and are stumped when doing kata in a different location!

[arny]

we practice taikyoko-shodan,and then the heians at our dojo.once we did taikioku-rokudan ,but we regulary practice just taikyoku,and the heians.