competition kata/self defence kata

[Ripper]

If i change the kata then i may lose something that the founders put into my style thus making my style incomplete.

 

You may, but we don't know what the intentions were of the founders. So if we don't know what a kata was for, how can we lose that? We can re-engineer a lot but we will never know the original intent.

 

For example, the swastika is used a lot in shotokan-katas. We don't know if it is a certain technique to maim an opponent or if it is a symbolic movement (or anything else). If you decide to put another technique into it so you can create a good flowing explanation of a kata....why not? It doesn't make your style incomplete but it makes it alive. For training that's a good thing.

 

It does however, make it a lot trickier in terms of tests and so on, but that's a whole other issue. So you are right with the next quote about losing your style. If we change or add katas the original style will dissapear. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Why train katas when you don't know what the original intent was? I like to re-engineer katas, but others might find it a lot more interesting to make up their own katas with their own goals and train them. Why not?

You also lose you style.

[G95champ]

The swastika techinque???

 

You say we don't know what it is right? I say thats where our style is alive. When we do one in our dojo we teaching differant applications.

 

1. Blocking to attacks from 2 directions.

 

2. Strike and block either dirction.

 

3. A throwing techinque sort of like a front sweep just the hand movement.

 

4. a choke or doulbe arm escape.

 

5. A ripping mothion such as in Heian Godan.

 

6. A ready stance aka fighting postion

 

7. showing something in nature

 

Everything is not told thats where we make our style live.....

 

If we were to take out the swastika today becase we dont understnad it what happens in 100 years we take out the side thrust kick or the back stance?????

 

Bottom line the human body has 2 arms and 2 legs. They only bend and move certin ways. There is not motion we can do today that the founders could not do 100 or 500 years ago. So all we need to know is there. Fighting has not changed has it??? Certin rules apply in NHB events that IMO take away from traditional fighters but what worked them will work today.

 

There may be moves you want to work on and develope but this can be done in one step sparring. I don't think the traditional kata should be changed. Im a traditionalist. Now if you want to make up a new one and practice it with the old thats fine but I see no reason to throw somethign away just because you dont understand it. IMO that would make me work harder to figure it out.

 

We can all find the answers if we ask the right questions. Someone said that a long time ago and I tend to agree.

[Ripper]

Please reread my post without the red cloud in your eyes .......Maybe it doesn't look that way but I'm on your side.

 

You say "We can all find the answers if we ask the right questions." O.K. You give some applications for the technique, but as I said, we don't know what the original intent was. Maybe there was no application at all and was it something purely symbolic.

 

So again; no, we don't know what the technique is for and we will never know because we can't talk to the founders anymore, but we can make some nice suggestions what could have been the original intent.

 

Speaking of nice suggestions, you got me curious about nr. 7. Could you clarify that?

[G95champ]

Things in nature....

 

Ex Gankanku means crane on a rock. The one legged stance it to mock a crane.

 

Ex the 3 hops at the end of Chinte are to show the waves returing back into the ocean.

 

Ex The forarm strike in Empi the name empi means flying swallow so that much like the crane in Gankanku.

 

Ex the swastika in many kata is sometimes thought to be symbolgic of a big cat such as a tiger

 

Ex Kanku Dai means to view the sky the first move to look at the heavens and take it in and the move where you drop to the ground is to dodge attackes that surrond you just before you pop up and attack.

 

Ex Heian itself means a time period in Japan when people focused on beauty no so much what things ment. In other words the frame is more important than the picture. Thus the Heain kata dont really have much hidden meaning just are there to work the basic moves.

 

Several other things ive read and picked up if you have a specific question i can try and answer it.

 

Did not mean to make my post sound offensive and yes we dont know what the founders ment all the time but IMO there is a reason some styles lasted and other have not. So something much have been done right.

[Beka]

Ex the 3 hops at the end of Chinte are to show the waves returing back into the ocean.

 

What? Waves? I thought it was to jump over the dead bodies...

[aefibird]

Beka, I like your interpretation a lot better!!

 

Hmm, maybe I've just got a sick mind!

[G95champ]

I have and 8mm film that has Naikayman and others doing kata on it. Durring the Chinte (sp) durring the hops they say this is show the tide comming back in.

 

I generally teach the application as jumping on the downed opponets. (Bruce Lee does ita lot lol) or jumping over a whip or other belt type of thing they may be sweing at you.

 

But the application to be symbolic of the waves washing up on the beach is one that applyes to nature.

[aefibird]

I'd never heard of the 'wave' application of Chinte before; the most common explanation that I've so far heard for the jumps at the end of the kata is that you're jumping over a stick or whip.

 

Interesting!