Grappling Training - Navy Seals, Army Special Forces, etc.

[pmh1nic]

I was curious as to what percentage of the combat martial arts training among these units is devoted to grappling. Can any of you current or ex-Seals or Special Forces guys comment?

[Ironberg]

I would imagine that they wouldn't be so involved with grappling as they would about effectively gathered striking arts.

 

In the battlefield, you don't have time to roll around on the ground trying to time that ultimate submission. Just a thought.

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I'll agree with Ironberg on this one. Military training is designed to kill, not to get your opponent to submit generally. Plus, the psecial forces personel would be using weapons and every dirty trick in, or out of the book, including biting, scratching eyes, etc. They are also fully trained on where and how to use a knife effectively, so the chances of them going to the ground weaponless are slim at best i would think.

[delta1]

The stuff I've seen is mostly stand up grappling, and a lot of chokes. Knife/bayonette, garrote- wet work. Obviously a lot of firearms, explosives and improvised weapons. A lot of them also get other training on the side. Holds tend to be for capture/restraint, not for submission or to break or injure. But I'm not ex or current spec ops, so this is all second hand. They don't tend to be too talkative about their training, except when giving classes or working with other military personnel, and then on a need to know only basis.

 

On the other hand, I remember a couple of SF types (Green Berets) who came over to show us ignorant Jarheads how things were supposed to be done. They spent the entire week walking around, saying things like "I don't believe it." "How did you do that?" "You can't be useing that." Naawww, that can't work, ..., can it?" 'Unreal." We were sure sad to see them go. They were good entertainment- we didn't tend to get the good USO shows, so we really appreciated what we did get.

 

If you are thinking about studying an art with a view to later military service, I'd go with one that is brutal, alive (I like that term), and has a lot of standup grappling and knife work. My first choice would be an art based on WWII combatives. Another good choice is (and I'm going to surprise some of you here) BJJ. It stresses alive training and moving for dominant position, and useing principles and technique in close. Fighting with a full compliment of deuce gear (782 gear, full kitt, full harness, all that dang junk you have to carry) is different than anything you'll get to do in a martial arts class, but the principles will carry over. American Kenpo would be another good art to study, as it will teach you to use and adapt principles. (That recomendation shouldn't surprise anyone! )

 

I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but hope it helps.

[KSD]

75th Ranger Regiment is using and training in BJJ to a large extent.

[pmh1nic]

Thanks for the info.

 

KSD, when you say BJJ are you saying that the majority of the training involves takedowns and floor fighting?

[Gumbi]

My instructor does alot of work for the US armed services, and he used to be a Ranger too I believe. They learn BJJ, but learn simple moves. Such an example would be learning say 1 or 2 throws which can then be followed up with one or 2 fatal techniques (chokes for instance). But, once you've thrown your enemy to the ground, you have the time to reach for your k-bar or sidearm.

 

Its not heavily addressed simply because hand to hand doesnt happen often in war.

[SevenStar]

bjj is used quite a bit. not just in special forces, but in the military in general. Check out the arm combatives guide. In combat, you will be using guns - that's where the majority of their training time is spent - shoot, formations, training missions, etc. hand to hand helps to instill agressiveness, which is a must in combat. That's the primary purpose of h2h training.

[Mart]

It would be interesting to know how much MA training spec ops or even regular army units use.

 

However i would guess they dont do loads probably less than we do. I expect most of their training involves guns and the like.

[Treebranch]

Actually we have armor techniques and ways to fight with body armor on, fighting with extra weight on. Fighting on various terrain is often over looked in most MA's. There are a few out there, but are often overlooked, because of stigmas and preconceived ideas about the art. I think grappling is the best choice for the military especially an art that teaches you how to use a knife, baton, jo, stuff like that. Basically MA's that teach you how to grapple and throw from a standing position so that you can see what's happening around you. Of course ground fighting should be covered equally, but not solely. There are many ways to strike someone and take balance with the strike as well as damage so that you can throw the person down and stab or severly injure.

 

Yes, the MA should be brutal and to the point. San Soo, Budo Taijutsu, Judo with some weapons training, Arnis is a few that I think would be of real use. The problem is that the military doesn't focus on hand to hand and really isn't as useful when killing is the objective and guns are the mose efficient killing weapon.