Interesting Article on BJJ.

[Treebranch]

This guy makes some really good points. What are your opinions of what he has to say?

 

http://bjj.org/editorials/970824-bjjweak/

[Rich67]

Good link. I agree with some of the points made in that article, but I think the article is written from the NHB tournament standpoint. I agree that since NHB rules have changed (time constraints, restarts, etc) the fighters must also adapt, making Jiu Jitsu less competitive in that arena. However, when it comes to real-life and a street fight, Jiu Jitsu still has an important place. I don't think a well-rounded fighter (both in and out of the arena) should be specifically BJJ. You need a good mix of stand-up and groundwork to get the job done. That applies to both environments. I am training in BJJ right now, but I also had a lot of years in primarily stand-up styles. I am taking BJJ to help "round out" my training. I want to feel as comfortable on the ground as I am on my feet.

[SevenStar]

Those are all valid points, in reference to MMA. that's why MMA guys cross train. at my school, we train no gi 2 nights a week, and for that very reason. Focus on lower body submissions will vary from school to school. There aren't alot of them, but there really doesn't need to be. On no go nights, we work submission wrestling and drill various takedowns. This is all a part of crosstraining.

 

Same thing goes for his point about the guard. since the inception of the UFC, all of the fighters began to cross train, so they all know the guard and how to defend it.

 

His points aren't a negative against bjj, merely an illustration of what happens when people test themselves. They can't say "Our master used this and was undefeated" because people have adapted to the technique and learned to counter it. MMA don't fall into the trap of constantly believing in untested techniques...

[AndrewGreen]

The one thing that he forgets to mention, and many others forget too, is the integration of skills.

 

Doing BJJ one night, wrestling another, then boxing on the third does not teach you how to use them together.

 

Far too many people train through segregation, and have no idea how to integrate things.

[Rich67]

The one thing that he forgets to mention, and many others forget too, is the integration of skills.

 

Doing BJJ one night, wrestling another, then boxing on the third does not teach you how to use them together.

 

Far too many people train through segregation, and have no idea how to integrate things.

That is a really good point. We practice what we call "flow drills", where we spar lightly and work from the standup fight and end up on the ground, going into various submissions, etc. It's not really like a sparring match, but more like a choreographed series of moves: we start off throwing a series of punches and kicks each, blocking and parrying them back and forth, then shoot in for a one or two leg takedown, then go into various submission drills, looking for a different technique when each incident arises. It's fun, and I think it's very practical.

[White Warlock]

Royce made his mark and promptly took a leave of absence following his 35 minute draw against Ken Shamrock in UFC 5. He has been missing in action for quite some time. Reason: Proficiency in BJJ is no longer the dominating factor in NHB success, and Royce can no longer be the formidable fighter he once was under no time limits.

I would have to strongly disagree with this part of the article that is, unfortunately, the foundation to Brian Kodi's entire argument.

 

I watched UFC 5 live-telecast, as well as a few prior, and... simply... the rules of engagement had changed. In UFC 5, the "Superfight" noted here had introduced the 'action break.' I.e., if both opponents were on the ground for a long period of time, and it 'looked' like nobody was getting an advantage, the referee was allowed to 'break' the fight and have the contestants stand-up again. This annoying change of rules, for the sake of 'entertainment,' directly interfered with Royce's style of wearing out his larger opponent until an opening came about, as happened in some earlier UFC bouts. Because of one of these 'action breaks,' in which the opponents were ordered to stand up and go at it again, Shamrock got in a lucky punch and gave Royce a shiner. They both quickly ended up on the ground and eventually the 'second' dramatic change entered into play. They ran out of time.

 

This is the reason the Royces left the UFCs. Rules had been added to increase the 'action,' for the benefit of the spectators, and at the expense of the grapplers. The most two dramatic of these rules, as previously noted, are:

 

1. bouts with time limits (thus ensuring competitors didn't need to conserve their energy) and,

 

2. 'action breaks,' in which the referee was allowed to break an extended grappling scenario.

 

But, there were many other changes made to UFC and UFC clones. Simply, UFC and other so-called NHB competitions are no longer NHB, but have instead turned into spectator sports (sports geared toward the spectators), therefore many of Kodi's arguments fall short.

[AndrewGreen]

close...

 

The first stand up occured because the time had run out. Actually the time ran out a minute or two before they actually ended.

 

However they added a 5 min overtime on the fly, both fighters corners agreed and they went in again.

 

Overtime expired and the fight ended a draw.

 

The time limit apparently interferred with both fighters game plans. Shamrock stated that his game plan was for a MUCH longer fight, basically get on him, stay tight and wear on him. Figuring he could prevent submission that way.

 

Royce's game plan was rather similar as everyone is aware...

 

So basically they both planned to wait each other out. Not a very exciting fight, but good strategy.

 

The time limit was added on very short notice.

 

As for turning into spectator sports, yes, they had too. A 8 fight card of fights going several hours of wearing down on each other isn't going to bring in enough money to pay for the ring they're fighting in.

 

Made the pace faster, and forces fighters to actively work towards ending the fight or get restarted. Kind of more practical if self-defence is your goal isn't that?

[Gumbi]

"Training predominantly with a gi in BJJ has become a detriment: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is excessively dependent on clothing to hold, reverse and submit. Since most contestants in NHB do not wear a gi, Jiu Jitsu loses a part of its potency"

 

True, BJJ loses a little of its potency simply because there isnt as many handles, however, hes missing the idea of training with the gi on. Using a gi teaches someone the most vital part of fighting- protecting your neck. With so many choke holds, you learn how to protect you neck REAL fast. You're also used to people grabbing you all the time and using your clothing against you. I can tell you that going to no gi is pretty easy because people can no longer control my legs when I go for triangles and arm bars. Using the gi also works to give its fighters incredible grips (anyone notice its a little hard to break out of Nogueira's grips?) because they use grips all the time. Also, because there are so many moves, your mind is racing with tons of possible reactions to whatever an opponent does- fewer techniques simplifies this a little, therefore its pretty easy to adapt to no gi and flow from one move to the next.

 

"Belfort was also concerned about the 300+ lb. of baggage Ferozzo brought with him to the Octagon. Therefore, size, strength and lack of the opponent's clothing caused an unprecedented divergence in a top BJJ fighter's strategy"

 

It was BECAUSE of Jiu Jitsu training that Belfort had this option (along with his quick as hell hands). Jiu Jitsu isnt ALWAYS about ground fighting- its about positioning- and belfort simply opted to stay behind him and pummel him to death.

 

"The BJJ guard has lost its effectiveness in NHB: Royce Gracie's mastery in fighting on his back gave everyone an erroneous illustration of the guard and its true limitations."

 

Well, hes smoking crack- yes the guard isnt as effective as when Royce used it because no one knew you could be on your back and win. I think the fact that people have to learn submissions now to AVOID them as well as learn how to fight the guard game is a testemant to how powerful a position it is. This guy must have missed almost every skilled groundfighters fights in MMA. Nog/Busta/Fedor/Silva anyone?

 

"In UFC 2, Ken Shamrock tapped the canvas quickly against Royce, but managed to stay in Royce's guard for 35 minutes during their rematch in UFC 5."

 

Ken attacked Royce in UFC 1 and Royce defended and made the transition. Ken DIDN'T attack in UFC- all he did was lay on top of Royce and do NOTHING AT ALL. Lets not forget that Ken had a solid 40 lbs on Royce. Bottom line was he could not hurt Royce.

 

"Takedowns are not adequately addressed in BJJ: The prevailing philosophy has been that going to the ground is the goal, and how you get there is of less importance."

 

Agreed

 

"Conditioning: BJJ tournaments are a great medium for improving dominant position skills, but conditioning for NHB tournaments requires a vastly different training regimen. In BJJ, participants can and often fight in spurts since the threat of bodily harm from strikes is nil. If a fighter has a good guard, he can lay back and take a breather once in a while, using a minuscule amount of effort warding off his opponent's attempts at passing the guard. Nowadays, in NHB, passing the guard is of infinitesimally less importance than striking your opponent from inside his guard"

 

Once again, a skilled BJJ fighter CAN still rest when he has guard in NHB- same examples as used before- and they've ALL done it

[Gumbi]

"Minuscule lower body submission: Experienced Shootfighters can end the fight against the BJJ elite at a moment's notice. Allan Goes' ankle was badly broken by Frank Shamrock in a Pancrase match. Goes was lucky the referee gave him an escape since he was too close to the edge of the ring. After the cast was taken off his ankle, Goes became determined to master the lower body submission game"

 

This was old BJJ fighters, and lower leg subs were obviously a weakness, however this is not the case anymore. Take into account how many Pancrase/Shootfighters have fought and lost to BJJ fighters. The numbers are heavily lopsided in favor of the BJJ fighter.

 

"The overwhelming odds of winning (in a street fight)are in favor of he who strikes first, strikes fast, and strikes hard. "

 

This is obvious, but ironically he just proved the effectiveness of BJJ- BJJ assumes that the person you are fighting is bigger, stronger, and faster than you are. He will therefore be able to strike first, strike fast, and strike hard- moreso than you.

 

Show me a standup style that would have enabled someone the size of Royce to defeat someone the size of Ken Shamrock- who was the #1 ranked shootfighter in the world at the time. Pat Smith was a top ranked kickboxer at the time and a much better striker than ken, yet he still lost rather quickly in their fight.

[WolverineGuy]

Judo.