Did the 'west' change the 'eastern' meaning of using karate?

[Sauzin]

Thank you for your comments.

 

Sauzin - Do you think we practice karate here in the west or have 'the west' created their own karate?

 

Is karate, as the modern world knows it, the western forms of karate?

It is difficult to offer a general answer to this question. I think that Karate as it was on Okinawa does exist in the west, however I think that it is much less common then its modern counterpart. I think there are still dojo's where the instructors and students are true and committed enough to still practice the traditions and arts from Okinawa. There are a lot of dojo’s that perhaps the students or the instructor have other things in their lives that prevent them from 100% dedication but they still try to keep the values and culture of the art as best they can. Everyone has lives and in the west life can be more distracting. Still in modern Okinawa the same is becoming true.

 

There are a lot of Mcdojo's. There are a lot of "karate" schools that are really tae kwon do. There are a lot of Shodans out there teaching when they really should be starting to learn. There are a lot of schools where the instructors collect shodans from every art they can pay to get one. There are a lot of schools that get most their material from a video tape. But to say that all schools in the west are this way is inaccurate. Each dojo is unique and defined by both the individual instructor and his students. There are many that are Okinawan, and many more that are legit in other ways. What I have a difficult time with is that in the west karate no longer means the art is Okinawan in origin. Sometimes it does, but these days the only way to know for sure is to walk in the dojo door and see for yourself.

How much of eastern culture have 'the west' put back into karate?

This too is difficult to generalize. Each dojo has it's own story. Many always had the cultural aspect. Many more never had it and never will. It depends. I will say that most dojo's that don't have any of the cultural aspects of the art aren't interested in putting them back. They have usually believe that the modern culture is better for adaptability, improvement, open mindness, and applicability. I have never seen a dojo that started without the culture and then included it. I'm sure it exists but I would not be able to comment on the success of this occurrence.

[Monkeymagic]

Jerrylove - Do you think karate was really developed in Okinawa during the Japanese occupation of the Island? Why do you think this? Do you also think that the Okinawans identify themselves with the 'birth' of karate?

 

Unknown - Do you not think that the Japanese and okinawans used kata when developing karate? I think the japanese also developed point sparring in the karate physical education - Does anyone know whether this is true?

 

Thanks again

[kotegashiNeo]

Truth of it being no one really knows the origin of karate the records are at best inconclusive. I personally think that the west has lost the spirit of karate. Most people are interested in the quick fix minimal effort. The seek the end any end weekend book end, they tend to ignore the journey

[aefibird]

I personally think that the west has lost the spirit of karate. Most people are interested in the quick fix minimal effort. The seek the end any end weekend book end, they tend to ignore the journey

 

I agree with KotegashiNeo. There are plenty of Western Karate dojo's out there that are true to the foundations and traditions of karate, but they'e getting swamped by the 'quick fix' schools and those who are only in it for the money.

 

I've been researching martial arts schools in my area, as I've recently had to give up Aikido and I'd like another art to train in as well as Shotokan. I visited a dojo this morning to watch a class and chat to the instructor. One of the first things that he said to me was about how soon I could get to black belt if I trained at his club. It was obvious that getting as many people to shodan in as short a time as possible, whilst extracting the largest amount of money from them, was the sole aim of his school. Needless to say, I won't be training there.

[Karateka]

The West has changed what many view Karate as. I know that we still have our ties with traditional karate and that we practice lots of etiquette and maintaining that peace of mind that comes with training. That being said, we are a competition dojo who have excellent point sparring competitors. I would not call that point sparring a "laughable" part of Karate, merely another aspect of it. To be good at it, you have to be able to work hard on techniques that can take months, even years to learn. I know that if I hadn't been taught Kata and worked on them for months, I never would have been able to have the patience to learn the techniques necessary for me to go into tournaments. Point Sparring was introduced by Japan, not the West. It is an excellent tool for developing the three necessary variables with any technique....speed, distance, and timing. Everything has its purpose, you just have to realise what that purpose is. The music in the "EXTREME KARATE" that are on during the kata's have a purpose....its to make the crowd enjoy it.

 

As for how much the West has changed Karate...I think its allowed new ideas to be brought into the system. I know that sometimes we use the "quick fix" version of doing things instead of "hard and thorough practice through pain" but I do not see that as a detrement. On the contrary, I feel that if the same effect is drawn out, then it is efficient and worth it. If someone is looking for the psychological aspects of working through a specific technique, there are plenty in Karate which can be substituted for it. Its okay to be efficient, in my view.

[trekmann]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but was'nt Japan the first country to put a sporting flavour into Karate. I was under the impression that they introduced tournament fightig.

[Monkeymagic]

Truth of it being no one really knows the origin of karate the records are at best inconclusive. I personally think that the west has lost the spirit of karate.

 

What is the sprit of karate?

 

[Karateka]

To my understanding, Karate spirit is the determination that one has during everything they do. This is what my Sensei told me..."Two people are hanging off a cliff from their fingers. A guy comes up and says "Help is on the way, but it might take up to an hour". One guy says "I can't wait that long, I am going to fall, I can't hold on." The other guy, the one with karate spirit says "I am going to hold on till help arrives, I don't care how tired I get, I will hold on."

 

That is the best way I can describe my opinion of Karate spirit.

[Monkeymagic]

Karateka - How much of eastern culture have 'the west' put back into karate?

 

You seem quite for influence the west has had on karate. Could you see the karate that we know in the west as 'karate' and that of the ancient time something else?

 

[Monkeymagic]

Bit confusing that sentence...I mean you seem in favour of the west's influence

 

Thanks