Did the 'west' change the 'eastern' meaning of using karate?

[Monkeymagic]

I am doing research for my masters degree on karate and its use in western society and how it has changed from how it was inteded to be used. What are your views? Have you been influenced by karate as we know it in the west or do you seek the 'eastern' philosophy behind the practice?

 

':roll:'

[JerryLove]

I was under the impresseion that "Karate" was a generic Okinawan term for unarmed fighting, and that Japanese fighting philosophy was "Budo"

[Monkeymagic]

From my research I have found the original term or meaning of karate was from China, meaning 'China hand' or that is how the japanese termed it. They wanted ownership of this 'okinawan' martial art, thus removed the 'china' part and replaced it with 'empty hand'.

 

Now, i'm not sure if karate was actually called karate when it was refered to as 'china hand' but the apparent meaning of ka - empty, te - hand came from the japanese description of how the okinawan's practiced this art. Apparently many of the movements came from mainland China ( as Okinawa was Owed by China when/or just before the Japanese took it over)

 

What I really mean by 'meaning' I suppose would be the philosphy, ethos and reason why karate was practiced in the 'east'. I am leaving the 'meaning' of 'east' open for interpretation and discussion.

 

thanks for your comments jerrylove

[Sauzin]

Karate the art has its origins largely in southern Chinese systems, but Karate never meant Chinese hand, though that is the style it referred to. As you stated in the second paragraph Karate has always meant Empty Hand, which refers to the state of being that is obtained in its practice (when done right). Tote literally means Chinese Hand. The decision to call the Okinawan arts Karate do was made on the island in a very famous council in 1936. Also China didn't so much rule Okinawa as one might think. Yes the Chinese empire did stake claim but they rarely made any visits to the forgotten island and it was largely ruled during the period by local monarchy whose Chinese relationship was formal at best. Really most of the arts in Okinawa arrived there from a small Chinese settlement in Shuri, trade, and Okinawans who left to China to study and then returned.

 

When you speak about Karate's intent and practice I feel it has dramatically changed with its introduction to the "West". To understand this you need to understand Okinawa. It was and still is a Mecca of martial arts. To be a lifetime martial artist in Okinawa means more then just running a successful studio. It requires a devotion that westerners rarely had the opportunity or convenience to take. Daily practice was only the beginning. Conditioning, repetition, and extensive practice were rights of passage. To be a karateka meant 100% devotion. On Okinawa, during the golden years, Karate was not a sport or a hobby, it was a life. And they treated those who chose it very well. To this day, a legitimate grand master is still considered a national treasure on the island and is given special privileges.

 

You also have to understand the Okinawan mindset. The older ones are very stubborn. They lived through world war 2 for Christ's sake. The island was decimated during that war by both the Japanese and the US. But still they continue their traditions. Try walking up to an Okinawan Master and asking him to add or change a kata in his system. If you're lucky, he'll laugh. The old ones don't do it. Their fathers and their father's fathers trained a certain way. And while they recognize the need and inevitability of modern times there is one thing they want to be the same; that's the spirit of the art, it's soul. And if that isn't found in their kata, I don't know what is.

 

With the introduction of American bases to the Island it was inevitable that it would migrate. And when it did, of course it changed. The people who migrated it had jobs, they had families, they had other hobbies. Many had short attention spans. Somewhere the term "black belt" become synonymous for "I know it already" and things got really messed up. But I think things are getting better. I think people are rediscovering that Karate doesn't mean "I can beat you up real good" it means something more then just an end result. To me it's a life enhancement practice, an art, a science, and tradition that all the bombs in world war II couldn’t burry.

 

One thing that I think you need to keep in mind that jerrylove made clear. Karate is not a philosophy. In a karate class, students don't and never have learned about creation or man's happiness. It's a discipline, an art, but it's not a philosophy or religion. The people who practice karate have those things but that's not what they pass on in karate class. The closest you'll ever get is the saying that "karate is defensive" but really that's a tactical statement not a philosophy. Karate is as separate as anything can be from philosophy and religion.

[Sasori_Te]

Sauzin. I was under the impression that the original character for kara in kara-te was the Chinese character. This was changed during the the early 1900's due partly to political reasons, as China wasn't exactly Japan's best buddy at the time. I believe that this is what Monkeymagic is reffering to.

 

I would also have to disagree with what you said regarding karate being totally separate from philosophy and religion. Karate Do's sole purpose is to improve life in general through the study of karate by applying the tenets of karate to everyday living. That sounds a lot like a philosophy to me. I would say that not all martial arts (especially the ones that focus on jutsu rather than do) are trying to present this face.

 

I was also under the impression that Chinese Tode, Tote, Toudi, however you want to write it; was combined with the indigenous arts on Okinawa ( a kind of submission wrestling ) to form what was to be called Karate. It isn't totally a Chinese import. A look at the bunkai for the more advanced kata will illustrate this point.

[Sauzin]

The interesting thing is that before that 1936 meeting, the term karate was widely disputed. Some thought all Okinawan arts should be called Tote, which I was under the impression literally meant "Chinese hand". Another guy wanted all the arts to be called "Okinawan Kenpo". At last Karate won out, but by the time everyone decided to start using it, the established meaning was empty-hand. I did also hear that “kara” was originally written with the character for Chinese but I have heard this both ways. The way it was explained to me on Okinawa, from my Sensie Wade Chroninger was that it meant “empty” and was a description of the state of mind used while practicing the art, not a reference to whether or not something was in a person's hands. You see I think were a lot of confusion comes from is around 1900 on Okinawa people called their arts a lot of different things. Which I believe was a large reason behind the 1936 meeting, to obtain some standardization in practice, name, and competition. Still by the time it was commonly used to describe most all the arts from the Island it most assuredly meant empty-hand.

 

You know, I understand where you are coming from with you're belief of philosophy in karate, but I still disagree. Truly there is philosophy in any life endeavor that one should commit themselves to fully, however karate doesn't inherently contain this, and I don’t think it should. I truly believe that when you invite either philosophy or religion into a dojo you invite division. People have different opinions, different perspectives, different cultures, but still they should be able to practice a martial art side by side. And idealist and a realist, a Buddhist and a Christian, should not have conflict in a dojo. Because the art isn't about who created Adam and Eve or whether the glass is half empty or half full.

 

Now if you study karate closely, you will find principles that apply else where in your life. But that doesn't mean you are applying the philosophy of karate to life. It means you are finding the philosophy through karate, and applying it elsewhere. There's a big difference. Just because when you drop an apple it falls doesn't mean every time something falls it's because of the apple. Yes the same principles apply, and yes you may have first learned it from the apple, but the apple and the physics are still separate things.

 

When you study karate you study the art of war. When you try to add things that are not directly related to the subject at hand I truly believe you risk diluting its value.

 

A good understanding of philosophy will also contribute to skills in karate. But the same is true of handwriting yet we don’t teach philosophy in 3rd grade.

 

My suggestion is that people look to karate to learn the art itself. Practice the kata, work hard, and then if at the end of the day whey you’ve done all you can do to perfect you’re art, you learn something about you’re self, so be it. But don’t go into it looking for some kind of special enlightenment. If you do, where does that leave the art?

[JerryLove]

When you study karate you study the art of war. When you try to add things that are not directly related to the subject at hand I truly believe you risk diluting its value.

I would tend to disagree.

 

Certainly the Ryou we think of as Karate todat can trace their Island history to a time when Okinawa was under Japanese occupation. Armies and weapons were outlawed.

 

That's why traditional karate weapons are farm implaments instead of "real weapons". Karate sword forms are pretty unherad of.

[Sauzin]

When you study karate you study the art of war. When you try to add things that are not directly related to the subject at hand I truly believe you risk diluting its value.

I would tend to disagree.

 

Certainly the Ryou we think of as Karate todat can trace their Island history to a time when Okinawa was under Japanese occupation. Armies and weapons were outlawed.

 

That's why traditional karate weapons are farm implaments instead of "real weapons". Karate sword forms are pretty unherad of.

 

Uh...I believe this to be a common misconception. Almost all of karate's forefathers were not farmers. In fact they were soldiers, policemen, Okinawan royalty, tradesmen, and scholars. Most Okinawan weapons descended from China. Nunchucku, sai, Nunte-bo, tecko and a good amount of their staff fighting. The only arguable farming impellents that I know of in kobudo are the tonfa and the very rarely seen kua. There is much debate regarding the tonfa however. And there are kobudo practitioners who practice the chinese broadsword. Though they are about as rare as the kua. Still kobudo is older then the Japanese occupation and I really believe that the lack of swords in the art has less to do with the outlawing of such blades to non-Samurai and more to do with the Okinawan's general attitude towards a weapon so strongly connected with Japan. They simply didn't like it.

 

My reference to "art of war" is really just another way of saying martial art. Martial literally meaning "of, relating to, or suited for war or a warrior (Merriam-Webster dictionary)".

[Monkeymagic]

Thank you for your comments.

 

Sauzin - Do you think we practice karate here in the west or have 'the west' created their own karate?

 

Is karate, as the modern world knows it, the western forms of karate?

 

How much of eastern culture have 'the west' put back into karate?

 

Jerry love please continue to add comments too.

 

[unknown]

the west has pretty much butchered the martial arts in many ways! everything from musical katas to point sparring is just americanized * as far as i am concerned. there are alot of so called "masters" of many arts within canada and the united states but very few truly are. there is one gentleman at my dojo who is a fifth degree black belt in aiki-jiu jitsu. he is an older guy and he has trained in japan in jiu jitsu and iaido. anyway about a year ago he travelled back to japan to grade for his 5th degree. anyway he was telling me that the east looks at the martial arts in the west as one big joke. from the musical katas with the movements that look more like a gymnastics competition, to the coloured gi's and worst of all point sparring.