Kata . Learning too fast

[MawashiGeri60]

. i have an intructor that i Train Shito Ryu . he likes to train kata alot . but i see that alot of his students cannot get the form correct and the katas beuty des not show . ok he wants a white belt to learn three katas .taikyoko shodan . taikyoko ni and . one other . i think thats too much for them .. i am currently a purple belt ranking in this school . which really im not really proud of because he rushed me through it and think he rushed other students as well . well i think the way we learn kata is very sloppy . for my ranking i should already know about 15 katas . most importantly i've lerned katas like juroku and seiinchi . saifa .. which i think takes time to master .i kno this because im also training under . Sensei Louie Morales who trained under Morio Higaoanna . and ive been training with him for almost 1 year and i only know 2 katas (geki si di ich and ni in the proces sof learning sanchin and saifa) and i didnt rush through them like my intructor in Shito Ryu . i took 1 year to learn the correct forms of geki si di ich and ni . and i still see a bit of mistakes which needs correcting . i kno i should talk to the Shito Ryu intructor about it . but i dont want to disrespect his methods . actually i would love to train with my Goju Ryu iontructor but currently he does not have a school only in the high school where he teaches . I have a bad feeling i am going to have ato quit . because intructors now a days seem to slack off and have no discipline under there students . So far i only had one real and trustworthy intructor and that Sensei Louie Morales .

 

Write Comments -- your opinion about learning kata too too fast . and how it can harm a persons ability to learn the secret techniques under it . Thanks for ur time

[ramymensa]

I think you should really express your worries to your instructor, in a very delicate manner, but you must find out what he thinks about it.

 

Rushing through the ranks and katas is a mistake in my POV. I've learnt one kata for every rank and only after 6th kyu I started learning a second one (that was neede afterwards). When I was yellow I studied Heian Nidan for the next belt and rehearsed Taikyoku Shodan and Heian Shodan (needed in the previous exams). Some coleagues were doing Bassai Dai with the higher ranks, saying they got bored. Though I could learn some fancy and nice katas, I just swallowed my pride and continued with my Nidan. No need to say the guys didn't pass the exam (they culdn't perform the kata as good as needed and nobody was interested they knew the "dance" in Bassai Dai).

 

I'm kinda old fashioned but I say .. stick with the natural order. The kata curriculum is made up so one would get from easy to hard and simple to complex. Follow the steps and you'll find the way. Thus you'll master the katas and perform them CORRECTLY, with kime, timing, zanshin and so on.

 

Kata is not a dance. Coregraphy is important so you won't mix the movements. But add the others ingredients, take a lesson in patience and the results would be good.

[delta1]

You know, I'm thinking that this is one time I'm not going to advise talking with your instructor. I'm not saying don't talk, either, but from what you've said here I doubt it would do much good; and it might cause hard feelings. It sounds like he's one of these guys that thinks that you learn the dance, you get your belt. If he's not requireing you to understand what you're doing, my guess is he doesn't understand either.

 

The worst thing about 'learning' kata, or anything else, without understanding is not that you don't know what you are doing. Far more harmful is that, without understanding, you develope bad habbits that will plague you for a long time.

 

My advice, based on what you've told us and my experiences, is to leave. I'd do it quietly in this case. I've tried to talk to instructors like this before (not in front of their students). They generally start by giving you a 'what's your problem' look. But, if you persist, they get offended and downright antagonistic. In the end, though, it's your call. I don't know the whole story nor this particular instructor, so I'll be the first to say take this advice for what it's worth and come to your own conclusions as to how to handle this. Good luck.

[returning_wave]

I would actually say the same. leave. It seems drastic, but if your instructor is as bad as he sounds he probably has nothing more to teach you. I am in a very similar situation and I have stuck with the instructor (who seems to know astonisingly little about the art beyond the basics of green belt) while learnign on the side from books and videos. I will be leavign as soon as I can drive to get to another club.

[aefibird]

I agree with delta1 (who always gives sound advice!). I'd say that talking with your Shito Ryu instructor might only make it worse and cause bad feeling. I'd try and carry on just training with your Goju Ryu instructor if I were you and have a look round for another Shito Ryu school, if you really want to carry on with that style.

 

At least you recognise that you've just been taught the kata to get your next belt and you know that you need to take time over a kata to really know it properly. Your instructor in Goju Ryu sounds like a sound instructor; even if he's not got a proper dojo would he consider giving you private lessons at home or in another venue? Keep on practicing yourself and I'm sure you'll come to a good understanding of the kata, without feeling that you're being rushed into learning the next one.

 

Good luck with your training.

[MawashiGeri60]

i really appreacite the comments and various thoughts giving by delta1 , aefibird , returning wave , and ramymensa . well as much as i would like to train with my Okinawan Goju Ryu Intructor . and badly how i wanna learn from him . i cant at the moment . i can only take his classes in school . until i can graduate and he can probably teach me at his home . he has mentioned that to me before . well im planning on quitting the shito ryu instructor . he doesnt seem like a top qualified intructor in my eyes. i kno i will gain more experience from Sensei Morales . The thing is that the dojo i normally train in is only 1 block away from my house and he lives around my area im worried that one day he would see me and ask me why i just left . Normally i wouldnt care but he seems like he put some cofindence in me to become one of his black belts. but i dont want to learn from a teacher who rushes through kata . and bunkai . i think karate is kata and kata is karate . thats jut the way i think... Osu

[delta1]

aefibird, thanks for the vote of confidence.

The thing is that the dojo i normally train in is only 1 block away from my house and he lives around my area im worried that one day he would see me and ask me why i just left .

 

I guess I need to clear up one thing. I wasn't saying to just leave without telling him you are going. I'd just not go into a lot of detail why. If you do, be prepared for him to get defensive about it. If he presses you for details you'll just have to decide how much to say. But I recommend keeping it pretty basic, like "I'm not getting what I thought I should out of the martial arts." That doesn't attack him directly, and so is pretty neutral. Another option might be to say you'd like to try other things. But talking to someone who is in the position of teaching what they don't understand- and make no mistake that he knows he doesn't understand even if he's fooling himself with rationalizations- is asking to have a lot of insecurities unloaded on you in the form of aggression. So again, for what it's worth, my advice is to tell him you are leaving, but not go into details.

Normally i wouldnt care but he seems like he put some cofindence in me to become one of his black belts.

 

Even those instructors who don't know what they are teaching can recognize ability, dedication, and the fact that you do care. They want those students around to give credability to the lie they tell to themselves and their students. You have to decide two things; one is if this is the case here. As I said earlier, I can only speculate based on the limmited information you gave us. You have to make this judgement yourself. Next, if you decide that this is the case, you have to decide if you want to be a part of that lie.

 

One last bit of advice. If you do leave, even if on bad terms, let it all go. Don't spread tales, start rumors, or bad mouth him. You don't need the problems that will bring, and it will only result in your character being questioned by those you talk to. If asked, you don't have to recomend the school, and not giving a recomendation speaks volumes to anyone that is not terminally somnolent. If they are, of course that may be where they belong any how.

 

Well, that was more than I intended to write. Good luck with your problem. I've got to find white warlock and see if I can get a ride to the AA meeting (Advisors Annonymous). aefibird, do you know which way he went?

[MawashiGeri60]

thank u ver much good source of info and knowledge OSU

[G95champ]

Its good that you realize that. All to often people think they are much better than they are because of things like this.

 

We only teach one kata per belt up to Black Belt leval. Then we throw a few at you but its still your choice on which one to work on and whatever.

 

I don't have a prob. with lower belts learing extra kata but time needs to be spent on each one they learn and not just passing them by. Esipcially if its a traditional style.

[aefibird]

Champ, which kata do you learn at/for blackbelt?

 

For shodan test we can choose from Jion, Empi, Hangetsu, Kanku Dai and Tekki Nidan. Bassai Dai is compulsory in the FSK shodan test, as is a Heian kata of the examiners choice.

 

I agree that lower grades should take their time over learning kata - one kata for each belt level is the way we do it in my club too. However, my instructor makes us (lower grades especially) regularly go back and practice previous kata, because he says that if you can't get Kihon or Heian Shodan correct, what's the point in learning anything else?