Martial arts organizations

[Zhong Gau]

i reitterate Delta1's comments on affiliation.

 

in Chinese Martial Arts there are several affiliations which regulate who gets to teach based on competancy with certain forms, not if you know a certain form that most others can't learn. this is because most students will be better off learning a simple set of forms well than learning difficult ones poorly. it is to guarantee certain basics within a system and guarantees filial reciprocity to the founder's ancestry as well as making money. it is a way of guaranteeing a standard of quality.

 

For example, i'll use our enemy's method as an example:

 

the wah lum affiliation is very dogmatic and emphasises that they are the only practicioners of choy li fut. of course, this Flames other choy li fut stylists such as Hung Gar, Fut Gar, Lau Gar, Mok Gar, Sil Lum, Hung Fot, Consolidated, Goju, and Li Ling Pi.

 

The Hung Fot Grand Master Tai Yim studied with both Lam Jo and Yip Man in addition to the hung fot grandmaster before him and was niether the first nor the last to do so. those names are affiliations in and of themselves of a certain generation of students. which is why lineage is so important to chinese martial artists. the next generation is defined by Tai Yim, Chan Pui, and Kwong Chi. the three most famous of those previous three. thier kids are limited by not being able to train with Yip Mann and can't access Lam Jo, for the most part. so they are restricted to their predominant philosophy and maybe one other. Some of my Li brothers have tried to sneak into Wah Lum schools and have been rooted out at competitions where sigungs who have witnessed Li observe them perform: it is that different even though the forms are basically the same. one brother went to ufc. they brought out horace to test his groundfighting which ended by my brother capitulating to horace. even then he was not allowed onscreen. a year or so later another brother went and was denied even to try out based on our systems' name.

 

so, affiliation is important. It's just a matter of what kind of affiliation you want: either a subscription or a stigma.

[strangepair03]

I belong to 3 organizations...the only reason I do is I like the different publications they produce!!! I know what I know and no board,organization,commite, needs to send me a "certificate of rank and or membership" at what ever the going rate is now to remind me, all my promotions have been a result of gruling testing with my sensei, followed by a bow,handshake,belt and a congratulations. Just my ramblings.

 

[Phil Poore]

Hello,

I remember Bill Klase well. My son ken Poore received the last black that Bill Klase ever gave out.My son remembers him and misses him very much. He told me he will never forget Bill. My son still studies there and says he wants to teach someday.Does anyone have any photos of bill we could copy and put up in the dojo?

Phil Poore

ebryant5@tampabay.rr.com

[UpTheIrons]

Not necessarily. Not all famous martial artists who found their own styles claim 10th Dan. Ueshiba did not. No Tae Kwon Do Kwan Jang claimed highest Dan ranking. Kano did not. 10th Dan must be given to you by recognized Grandmasters in an art for outstanding contributions over a lifetime. You do not give yourself 10th Dan. Just because you found an art or style does not mean you deserve 10th Dan. It just means you founded an art.

[Scottster]

I studied under Shihan Bill Klase for several years. Along with his Brother Dean. At that time it was at the Pinellas Institute of Karate and the style was called "The way of the Tiger".

Shihan Bill klase deserves the rank of 10th Dan. I moved away from the area and have studied with several others of the 8th Dan ranks in different styles. Respectfully, I have not found any of them able to match the knowledge and contributions that Bill Klase represents.

Furthermore, Soke Bill Klase is a member of the Florida Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Which means that his contributions are recognized by his peers and other Grandmasters. All of which are probably better judges than anyone writing in this forum.

Now, my children are students and I have been discouraged because none of the styles in my area can compare to what I have learned from him.

I am saddened to hear about his death and now I feel compelled to honor him by teaching my children and anyone else that wants to learn, what I have learned from him. Furthermore, I will honor him by telling others of his outstanding contributions.

As we used to say as a class at the conclusion of each lesson.

"Thank you for teaching us Sensei"

Thank you for teaching us William "Tiger" Klase

[UpTheIrons]

I was not aware that there WAS a Florida Martial Arts Hall of Fame. Anyway, 8th or 10th Dan would mean worldwide recognition in your chosen art, not simply state recognition.

[Sam]

Yeha i remember discussing this before - as you get so senior [near 9th or 10th] you should really start becoming an ambassador for your art, and therefore recognised for it.

[Scottster]

Since I was no longer in contact with Bill Klase when he became a Grandmaster. ( I moved out of state). I talked to a few friends about him and ask who supported his promotion to GrandMaster. As far as we know there were atleast three notable names that acknowledged his rank.

GrandMaster Peter Urban

GrandMaster Joe Lewis

GrandMaster Mas Oyama

GrandMaster David Dye?

I know that Bill Klase studied under Peter Urban, Mas Oyama and Joe Lewis because I had the privilege of meeting them. I am not sure about David Dye, although I know that Bill Klase was very knowledgeable in Aikido.

Anyway, if just one of these guys think you deserve a 10th Dan then I don't think that anyone here could argue with that.

The whole credible certification thing is a bit of a joke anyway. Its sort of like winning the 100m gold medal in the Olympics and then being called the fastest man in the world. How do you know until you have raced everybody in the world. You only know that you were the fastest guy in the race. Some guy somewhere may be faster, he just never bothered to race.

Scottster

3rd Dan

[Scottster]

Since I was no longer in contact with Bill Klase when he became a Grandmaster. ( I moved out of state). I talked to a few friends about him and ask who supported his promotion to GrandMaster. As far as we know there were atleast three notable names that acknowledged his rank.

GrandMaster Peter Urban

GrandMaster Joe Lewis

GrandMaster Mas Oyama

GrandMaster David Dye?

I know that Bill Klase studied under Peter Urban, Mas Oyama and Joe Lewis because I had the privilege of meeting them. I am not sure about David Dye, although I know that Bill Klase was very knowledgeable in Aikido.

Anyway, if just one of these guys think you deserve a 10th Dan then I don't think that anyone here could argue with that.

The whole credible certification thing is a bit of a joke anyway. Its sort of like winning the 100m gold medal in the Olympics and then being called the fastest man in the world. How do you know until you have raced everybody in the world. You only know that you were the fastest guy in the race. Some guy somewhere may be faster, he just never bothered to race.

Scottster

3rd Dan

[Kickbox]

The old American karate/kickboxing rank schedule went something like this:

Age 16 1st dan. It takes two years to make 2nd dan (18), 3 years to make 3rd dan(21), 4 years to make 4th dan (25), 5 years to make 5th dan (30), and 5 years for each master level rank. Sixth dan (35), 7th dan ( 40), 8th dan (45), 9th dan (50), 10th dan (55).

Some people/styles say you must have enough time in grade to equal the next rank. So 7 years from 6th dan to 7th dan,8 years from 7th dan to 8th dan etc. You would be 70 to make 10th dan.

Now days money talks so some people buy their 6th dans through the mail.

If you have 40 years logged as a full time instructor then you've earned the right to call your self a 10th dan.