Anyone else...

[nathanjusko]

Is anyone else out there getting really fed up with all the different branches of martial arts and ten thousand different "grandmasters" out there for each one? I believe that the martial arts have now become a joke, especially in the American schools, we start teaching kids way too early and giving them belts like its candy so that mommy and daddy think that they are doing good parenting by sending them to learn something "worthwhile" and a "lifelong" skill and to instill some "discipline". They learn nothing worthwhile, 99% of them don't last past a year and they leave with no sense of discipline. It just really gets on my nerves to see the martial arts being infested with the disease of these "mcdojos" as they are so cleverly dubbed on this forum. I am sorry, but just because you started your own branch of martial arts does not mean you can go and become a "grandmaster", and no child below the age of 10 should ever begin receiving belt ranks past orange not to mention a child below the age of 15 receiving a blackbelt is just ridiculous. Then again, this is just my opinion, all I know is that it really burns my * when I tell someone that I do martial arts and am a blackbelt and they tell me that little Bobby or little Suzy got hers when he/she was 13. In my opinion, if a person receives a blackbelt the instructor is basically saying to the rest of the world that this person can physically hold their own against anybody else. That if you picked a person off the street or a person with the same rank and put the two of them together in a fight that it would be a good fight. Stop with the pity belts and the handouts, you are ruining martial arts.

[Rich_2k3]

yep, you make alot more money with 50 kids than you do with 10 adults, its a really pitty martial arts has come to this, and the sad thing is; it aint getting any better....

[turonaga]

children shouldn't be taught martial arts.

[ramymensa]

I've chosen the last option. I really think children must be over 10 to have some chance. There are always exceptions to this rule, but the fact is a degree of maturity must exist before a person should take MA classes. It's not a game. It's seroius and the students must understand it.

[John G]

ITF Taekwon-do states that first, second and third degree (Dan) black belts are only novice ranks. Most people will tell you that receiving your black belt is only the beginning of the journey. I can’t recall reading anywhere that it states on receiving your black belt a “person can physically hold their own against anybody else” .

 

If children can be taught to fire Kalashnikovs and throw hand grenades in some countries what harm is there in teaching martial arts to our children?

 

One must remember that the system of coloured belts and Dan grading is relatively new, primarily developed to cater for us materialistic westerners with only one thing in mind. Extracting more money.

 

If you feel that somehow you’re Dan/Degree ranking has been devalued by 6 y/o 4th Dan/degree holders, then you obversely hold the status of black belt over that of what is taught.

 

Be more concerned with what you can learn rather than what rank and training someone else has obtained, regardless of age.

 

If you feel that people are being ripped off, or have been given a false sense of security, expose the frauds and suggest alternatives.

 

Respectfully,

[Mc. Steve]

Have you every head or little tigers? It's Martial arts classes designed specifically for kids, to give them a baseing in martial arts. They get belts, but I don't think they coult for proper gup grades. Can't find the webpage on it, but I recon it's good to learn somthing from a young age, because it will make learning later easier. I started at 7 and continues for 2 years. (You could only get a sort of honary black belt, then I think you had to retest when you turned 16.) When I MA up a year ago I found it extremely easy to learn the 'basics' and I had alot more respect and dicipline, so I see where you're coming from, but don't think it's true in every case.

 

S

[aefibird]

I think that children should be AT LEAST 11 before being allowed to be taught martial arts.

 

My Aikido instructor won't take anyone under the age 18 because he says that children haven't got the physical and mental capacity to deal with the complexities of martial arts, especially something like Aikido. Plus, joint locks and throws on growing children could do serious damage if applied wrongly. He used to take people from the age of 14 and above, but he got fed up of teenagers turning up to a few lessons, finding out that it wasn't like in the movies and then quitting on him, so he extended the minimum age to 18 to increase the chance of getting srious students.

 

Regarding children and black belts - well, nowhere is it 'formally written' that getting a black belt means you should be able to hold your own in a street fight, but the gaining of a blackbelt means you should have good understanding and application of each technique. A lot of children don't have the mental capacity to see beyond 'just punching someone'. I agree that 1st, 2nd dan means that you've really just started in MA, but I don't agree with the awarding of black belts to children. Comparing 7 year old Johnny blackbelt with a 10 year old blackbelt 16 stone rugby player is ridiculous and devalues the process and reasoning behind awarding belts IMO. There's nothing wrong with recognising the acheivements of children but to hand out blackbelts to them can often give them a false sense of security. Plus, a lot of children see the black belt as the 'be all and end all' of martial arts and don't realise that training and learning a martial art is a lifetime process and not something that can be acheived in a couple of years (or even 6 months as I recently heard of. A 16 year old was awarded a 1st degree blackbelt in kickboxing 6 months after starting training. She had never previously studied martial arts before that date).

[Shorinryu Sensei]

Is anyone else out there getting really fed up with all the different branches of martial arts and ten thousand different "grandmasters" out there for each one?

 

AGREED! Not so much with the various systems out there, but with phoney, over-ranked and unskilled black belts that are teaching.

I believe that the martial arts have now become a joke, especially in the American schools, we start teaching kids way too early and giving them belts like its candy so that mommy and daddy think that they are doing good parenting by sending them to learn something "worthwhile" and a "lifelong" skill and to instill some "discipline".

 

I also agree. I used to be an elementary teacher, and in my honest opinion, kids younger than 6 aren't mentally capable of really learning the arts. Sure, they can mimic the movements, but are unable to grasp the concepts behind them, which is what the arts are about. Kids between 6-8 years are borderline, depending on the kid. Some can do it, some can't, and I tell their parents this when they bring their child to me. If I feel they can't do it after 2-3 weeks of class, I inform the parents of this, and ask them to withdraw their child for another year or two. I won't waste my time, or their money if the child isn't ready to learn.

They learn nothing worthwhile, 99% of them don't last past a year and they leave with no sense of discipline.

 

This I don't agree with. Kids are like sponges and can learn many things, if they are mature and ready to do so.

It just really gets on my nerves to see the martial arts being infested with the disease of these "mcdojos" as they are so cleverly dubbed on this forum. I am sorry, but just because you started your own branch of martial arts does not mean you can go and become a "grandmaster", and no child below the age of 10 should ever begin receiving belt ranks past orange not to mention a child below the age of 15 receiving a blackbelt is just ridiculous.

 

I also agree with this. A number of years ago, the parents of a 9 year old TKD black belt sponsered a tournament in his name. The kid was actually teaching a class of adults and kids at the time (parents were non-martial artists). When the kid came up to compete in the kids upper belt kumite division, his attitude and manner was such that I, as the center referee, had to warn him to quite growling at his opponent and quit trying to intimidate him. The kid was a real JERK! The rules of the tournament were to respect your opponent and good behavior was expected by all, or you could be disqualified. To make a long story short, I disqualified the kid from his own tournament! Boy, were the parents MAD! lol

 

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have more time in the dojo bathroom wiping my butt then some of these people do in the arts, and it really drives me nuts to see kids with black belts..no matter what you call them (junior black belts, etc)

In my opinion, if a person receives a blackbelt the instructor is basically saying to the rest of the world that this person can physically hold their own against anybody else. That if you picked a person off the street or a person with the same rank and put the two of them together in a fight that it would be a good fight. Stop with the pity belts and the handouts, you are ruining martial arts.

 

Again, I agree with you 100%!!! I visit dojo's whenever I travel, and am usually appauled at the poor level of expertise of most blakck belts I've seen teaching classes.

 

A good post and topic.

[ramymensa]

In our dojo ... you help out with the technique from blue belt (5th kyu) or higher (depending on your skills and the how the instructor trusts you into doing this). A brown belt can even do the entire training (with sensei inside). A BB can do it without having anybosy assist him (again if he is trusted by sensei).

 

To be able to correct somebody and teach the right form you've got to be really good. Some teaching skill is needed. And being a class with adults and some kids, I wouldn't let a 10 year old show me something when I know I can kick his ..ss right away and make him eat the 2.50 meters of black belt around his waist. You'll tell me some old senseis couldn't stand up in a serious kumite. But few years ago they were full of strenght and they've got a life long experience. The little BB was years ago not a fearless sensei, but a cell waiting to divide

 

God I'm MEAN

 

Hopefully in my dojo there's no kiddy with BB. They are all adults and sweet persons.

[aefibird]

I know what you mean Ramymensa.

 

There are experienced black belts who have held their dan grades for longer than some of these kid blackbelts have actually been alive. It sickens me to hear of 2nd and even 3rd dan 10 and 11 year olds.

 

 

 

There's a pair of brothers who attend my beginners shotokan class on a Monday night and their father was chatting to me and my sensei last Monday about his nieces who are 13 and 14 years old. This father was telling us that they'd both just been awarded their 3rd degree blackbelts in TKD. He was really pleased of the fact and thought it was a great achievement that a 13 year old was a 3rd degree...

 

*shakes head sadly in disgust at how the standards in MA are slipping*