How or where can I learn to knife fight?

[Beka]

The only real weapons training in my style is with the 6ft Bo and the Tambos (more like 2 feet or something, i'm terrible with measurements). After the black belt there's opportunity for other stuff, but I would like to learn to weild a knife now. My dad has a habit of buying me small knives for self defense purposes, and he always says "don't pull it out unless you're gonna use it". So, then how do I use it? If I'm going to one day need it, I would like to have some experience with it. Thanks.

[granmasterchen]

well are we talking about knives made for fighting and killing or an ordinary pocket knife or steak knife...there is a huge difference.

 

If i were you i would ask your instructor if the instructor can't help you , look around for someone that can, maybe your instructor can at least point you in the correct direction.

[Beka]

I'm talking about small 2-3 inch blades. I have one switchblade and another utility kind of blade. My dad wants to get me a 5 inch or so buck knife, but I don't know. That may be a little bit big. I'm not looking to kill, just to do enough so I can run away quick.

[JerryLove]

Find an instructor with the appropriate skills. In MA, for knife work, my first thought would be IMA (Silat) with the FMA arts and some esoteric European arts second on my list.

 

Living in Berkeley, I don't think you will lack one of those options. I have enough personal exposure to my Silat (which I do not believe has a representitive there) and that of the three DeThaours brothers (Bill, Paul and Victor) that I would recommend them.

 

If you get desperate, I can point you at video material... what you get from it will depend a lot on you.

[Xtra Tribal]

For weapons, especially knife, check out some Filipino Martial Arts or Indonesian Martial Arts. Especially if it is for self defence. Having a blade and not knowing how to use it will mean your assailant may either disarm you and use it against you or he may pull a weapon he knows how to use against you. Also, when you learn what a blade can do to somebody, you might just carry a retractible baton or even a kubaton, you can use knife point percussion and targeting instead of the cutting and slashing. If you pull a blade, you may have to use it. Yuck! Having weapons as a scare tactic is a bad strategy.

 

Well good luck. Weapon training sharpens your empty hands.

 

Oh, I'd only suggest videos as a supplement and only after you've been instructed in the fundamentals from a qualified instructor.

[delta1]

I'd look at some of the reality courses out there, especially the ones based on WWII combatives.

 

American Kenpo translates its empty hands to knife work, and they have an excellent grasp of principles. So if you can find an instructor that will work with you, he might be able to help you make the transition.

 

FMA's are primarily a weapons system, and their stick training translates directly to edged weapons. Any decent Arnisadore should be able to get you started.

 

Books and videos are good to give another perspective. But I agree that your primary concern should be to get good, qualified personal instruction.

 

Don't forget to work on your carry, and deployment under all conditions. Also, and especially since you are in Berkley, don't neglect to study the legal ramifications of carrying any self defense weapon.

 

Good luck. I hope you never have to use your knife, but applaud you for having the sense and courage to prepare.

[granmasterchen]

i would first suggest learning how to defend against knife attacks..

 

while learning how to defend you can see what types of attacks with a knife will be more effective than others.....

 

from my personal experience i would say never try to stab either over head coming down or to thrust very bad in my oppinion....

 

the best way is to keep the attacker back at a distance by using slashing techniques,

 

be fast , the faster you move the blade and your arm the better chance you have of not getting the arm caught and broken and the knife taken

 

but like i said before talk to you instructor...

[JerryLove]

I'd look at some of the reality courses out there, especially the ones based on WWII combatives.

I assume you mean the Applegate-Fairbrian knife work. Not a bad choice if you can find it.

American Kenpo translates its empty hands to knife work, and they have an excellent grasp of principles. So if you can find an instructor that will work with you, he might be able to help you make the transition.

 

I've watched 3 Kenpo instructors teach knife work; all three taught Escrima as their knife class. Unfortunately, there is a fundamental and exploitable flaw in the process, but it's "better than most".

i would first suggest learning how to defend against knife attacks..

 

Always a good skill, but considering the comparitive ease of learning offensive knife use (and considering tha twas his request), I must disagree.

from my personal experience i would say never try to stab either over head coming down or to thrust very bad in my oppinion....

Depends on your opponents response. The reverse grip can be very effective (statistically speaking, more deadly... but I think that comes from attackers without skills and goals), and there is noting wrong with the #1, #2, and #7 angles. Depending on your opponent's response, you can fellet their defending hand or simply fish around into another angle.

 

otherwise, I generally agree with you both

[searcher]

Without a doubt, the best place and people to learn how to knife fight is Sayoc Kali. They are the best and so far nobody has been able to prove otherwise.

[delta1]

i would first suggest learning how to defend against knife attacks. while learning how to defend you can see what types of attacks with a knife will be more effective than others.....

 

Good advice, though I'd say learn both at the same time. If you are working with a partner, and you should be, then you'll get both sides any how. Again, the reality/combative arts are the quickest way to learn both. One word of caution here,I'd stay away from Krav Maga for knife work. They depend too much on trapping the knife hand or arm in the crook of their elbow- good way to get seriously cut.

from my personal experience i would say never try to stab either over head coming down or to thrust very bad in my oppinion....

 

I'm not going to say you are wrong, since you are speaking here in very general terms. But I would like to make a couple of points:

 

If you are talking about the typical ice pick attack where you wade in with an overhead strike, you are absolutely corect. But there are times you might use an overhead type attack- say after you've done a high 'block' (recieve his arm with your blade!), so you are in perfect position to drop your elbow and strike downward.

 

Thrusts from a distance to keep him back can leave you exposed. But they can work for that purpose, as anyone who has spared with sticks can tell you. Thrusts as part of a coordinated assault are a good thing. Mix it up- all circular or all linear is more easily defeated. Even many slashes are done from a thrust, like rotating a punch. It is quicker, harder to defend, and leaves you less open than the arcing swing most people use. Some of the best targets are protected by the ribcage, and you have to thrust with the blade flat to get them. Ex: a thrust with a two inch blade under the arm pit and between the ribs will drop your opponent like a stone.

the best way is to keep the attacker back at a distance by using slashing techniques, be fast , the faster you move the blade and your arm the better chance you have of not getting the arm caught and broken and the knife taken

 

Keep moving, but don't get into a pattern he can interpret and use against you. Use broken rythm, feignts, fast and slow. Be extremely relaxed, but alert- don't wear yourself out before you engage. Keep him at bay until you get position or he makes a mistake, but if he's that seriouse, he'll probably close with you. Be ready, and don't get into a defensive mindset. Once the knives come out, you have one purpose, and that is to destroy him. Your goal is survival, and that may mean he won't survive. Preparing your mind ahead of time is as important as the actual techniques.

but like i said before talk to you instructor...

 

Excellent advice, and since your style is a Viet based system, I'd bet your instructor has some knowlege in this area.

 

You'll find a lot of different theories and philosophies about knife fighting. Find someone who's been there and knows what it's like. For example, my Arnis instructor prefers to hold the knife out front allways and in a saber grip. I prefer the icepick grip, and my stance and guard changes continually. The saber grip gives you more reach and articulation. But it is less secure a grip, and leaving it out there can get it taken or controled. Consider that if you have to use it, your hands are going to be sweating. Anything that helps secure your hold on the weapon is a good thing, anything that doesn't is bad, in my opinion. And the ice pick grip makes use of coarse, basic motor skills and moves- which are all you'll have at this point. With a little practice, you'll be surprised at how versatile nad effective this grip is.

 

One last thing- when useing any type of penetrating weapon, your targets are no longer on the surface. You need to be a student of anatomy now. Mossad Ayoob, one of the premier combat shooting instructors, put it this way; "The successful shooter looks at his opponent like he's looking at a cat scan." That applies to knives as well, maybe even more. You not only have to know where your target is from any angle, but a knife fighter has to be more concerned with bypassing structure to get there.