BJJ and Judo

[Venezolano]

Wrestlers don't know about submissions, so they will left some ways open to the BJJ'er to submit him, also they like Judokas, tend to "turtle", and there will be it end with a BJJ guy.

 

Of course, standing up wrestler will like to get the takedown, and most probably he will, but once on the ground the BJJ has the advantadge.

 

For some BJJ vs Wrestlers take a look at:

 

Royce vs Severn

 

Mino vs Henderson

 

Sperry vs Larry Parker

 

Mino vs Coleman

 

Sakuraba vs Randleman (althought Sakuraba isn't a BJJ guy, he is a submission fighting guy).

 

IMHO in a Wrestler vs Judoka situation, i only see a Judoka having the advantadge if the wrestler if wearing a Gi, otherwise wrestler would dominate.

[matt jiujitsufighter]

im a bjj'er i have extensive training in throws and takedowns so don't generalise the myth that bjj'ers only do double legs. it may look a little that way in nhb, but don't be mistaken. of course most bjj schools are sport. i have the pleasure of training at a nhb/street bjj place. where emphasis is not put on sport. and look at

 

shamrock in ufc 3 beating that judo guy

 

or nogueira vs henderson

 

don't make generalisations , is all im asking, every dojo is different. every single one

[SevenStar]

Sure they are all different, but it's a generalization that fits. bjj is a ground grappling art. they do so stand up stuff in some schools - my school does - but I know not all of them do. Also, if you look at alot of schools in brazil, many people cross train in judo - which I also do (no, I'm not brazilian). They cross train in judo because judo trains throws and takedowns with more depth that bjj does.

[SevenStar]

IMHO in a Wrestler vs Judoka situation, i only see a Judoka having the advantadge if the wrestler if wearing a Gi, otherwise wrestler would dominate.

 

depends on how the judoka trains - alot of judo throws can be modified for no gi, but many clubs don't bother, since judo requires a gi. Just last week I tossed my bjj coach with an uchi mata (no gi). I can't always get him like that, but I can usually get the white and blue belts with something. We've got a wrestler that trains with us, and he says he hates to do standup with me.

[Venezolano]

Sure that some Judo throws can be adapted so they can be performed without the gi, but they are just a few.

 

Wrestler train all their time without a Gi on, so they should be betters in a no-gi situation.

 

Also, i think that Judo throws that can be without wearing a gi, should be more difficult to put without it.

 

That's why i said that.

[judoka86]

Wrestling is the oldest fighting style on the planet, it deals exclusively with making your opponent give up. The chokes are designed for safety, it has armbars of sorts, holds of ewvery different kind. Wrestlers know submission because thats how they win, or lose.

[White Warlock]

Umm... no.

 

I wrestled in high school and college. Pretty studly at it, if i say so myself (although, in truth, i'm a tad rusty nowadays). Wrestling does not teach submission techniques. It is, without a doubt, the most effective system for maintaining 'control on the ground,' but its lack of submission techniques puts it at a serious disadvantage when dealing with a judoka or bjjer. In competition (which is the only recognized form of teaching wrestling), points are obtained for putting your opponent in a position that is considered disadvantageous, then it is broken up and the competitors start up again. A wrestler's training pretty much stops right before submission techniques are required.

 

Also, it is not the oldest fighting style in the world. It is thought to have originated from Sumerians, who supposedly obtained it from the region now known as India, the area generally considered as the seed of Chinese martial arts (Bodhirhama came from India, to the Shaolin temple in what is known as Tibet). In fact, if my memory serves me, wrestling was revived, as a sport, during the 1400's from old and incomplete roman manuscripts on pancrase, marked around 200 a.d., and that the more lethal techniques were removed (sort of like what happened with judo). From this, wrestling and boxing, two separate 'sports' were born. So, what we practice today (freestyle, greco-roman, or even boxing) is not what was practiced in the gladiatorial days, and therefore... should not be deemed the 'oldest' martial art.

 

Now, the silliness of pointing at various MMA practitioners and saying, "this wrestler beat that judoka" is... well... silly. Most of the competitors have cross-trained and gained skills in one area or another that gives them a slight edge over someone else, who may not have practiced sufficient defense against what he's being subjected to. Fighting in competition is far more a chess game of tricks than it is a 'real' fight, where 'surprise' takes front and center. Comparing one fighter to another is not the means to determine whether one system is better than another. It is only a means to determine whether one fighter is able to beat another fighter. That's it... nothing else.

 

Granted, it's nice to see people implement techniques, and succeed... but it's also reasonable to assume that many of these techniques would not work as effectively on someone trained in the same techniques. So... surprise still tends to sneak into the door of MMA competitions.

[TJS]

Wrestling is the oldest fighting style on the planet, it deals exclusively with making your opponent give up. The chokes are designed for safety, it has armbars of sorts, holds of ewvery different kind. Wrestlers know submission because thats how they win, or lose.

 

Not really...Besides a few basic chokes and headlocks Wreslers anre notorious for not being able ot finish their opponets..and if they do so it's usally with strikes from a top position.

[Siddhartha]

You can't say one is better than the other. Different situations call for different techniques. In the street against one guy, I'd go for Judo, one ippon throw is all you need IF the guy is attacking you AND you can prove it. If you are subduing a non-violent non-compliant person (a drunk, a protestor, etc.) you want aikido, believe it or not. If you are being attacked by a couple of guys you want Run-Fu. You must give the parameters to compare the arts.

 

In an NHB situation, I'd take BJJ + wrestling over BJJ + Judo, unless we mean kodokan judo.

 

In a street ATTACK (not dumb little squabble of which person is badder), I'd take either Run-Fu or Muay Thai (if only one guy) depending on situation, but this is only if it can be proven that I had no choice but to defend myself.

 

While bullshitting with friends, BJJ and/or wrestling wins .

[SevenStar]

Sure that some Judo throws can be adapted so they can be performed without the gi, but they are just a few.

 

Actually, most of them can be done without a gi. The problem is that not everyone trains them without a gi, since you have to wear them in competitions.

 

Wrestler train all their time without a Gi on, so they should be betters in a no-gi situation.

 

agreed.

 

Also, i think that Judo throws that can be without wearing a gi, should be more difficult to put without it.

 

depends on the person. if you are adept at hooking, it won't be a big problem.

 

That's why i said that.

 

That's understandable.