SevenStar Posted April 6, 2004 Posted April 6, 2004 no misconception, just truth. chin na is in no way as extensive on the ground as bjj. some chin na exponents may address ground work, but not with the same depth. CMA on the avg just doesn't address ground grappling. some ground fighting, but I make a distinction there, as grappling doesn't usually address kicking from the ground and other such tactics.
SevenStar Posted April 6, 2004 Posted April 6, 2004 I'm always open for being wrong though... Prove me wrong. Site me two styles and support them with links, photos, etc. - any style other than dog boxing, as I know of that one - that adequately addresses ground work with their chin na, and to the extent that a grappling art does. And actually, you can send dog boxing links also, as I'd like to see pics of the style I've heard so much about.
Iron Arahat Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 I'm always open for being wrong though... Prove me wrong. Site me two styles and support them with links, photos, etc. - any style other than dog boxing, as I know of that one - that adequately addresses ground work with their chin na, and to the extent that a grappling art does. And actually, you can send dog boxing links also, as I'd like to see pics of the style I've heard so much about. You are hard pressed to find such images on the net. I have yet to see a picture of Kou Ch'uan on the net, let alone several "styles". You have to remember that many "styles" is a small section of a larger discipline, and the problem in many cases is that they take a small section and make it a complete "system". In these cases you are going to have a lack of well rounded skils. Kou Ch'uan is a small part of Shaoiln, a piece of the system, but again unless you dedicate the time you are not likely to be that well rounded. Martial Arts School http://www.shaolinwushu.cahttp://www.liveyyc.comCalgary Photographer: http://www.jdirom.com
SevenStar Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 Okay - Kou ch'uan - you mentioned that some styles are actually a portion of a larger system - which I agree with. So assuming Kou ch'uan is a small piece of what was left out of what many shaolin schools are teaching, where is their ground work coming from? In the short time I spent in longfist (4 years) I learned alot of chin na, but never anything ground based. our ground grappling was more or less poor bjj - like they had gone to a seminar and were teaching what they learned. How is one to know whether or not their style contains Kou ch'uan, and if it does, why wait X number of years in order to learn ground fighting? you can cross train and combine what you know with what you learn,when the time comes.
Iron Arahat Posted April 7, 2004 Posted April 7, 2004 Okay - Kou ch'uan - you mentioned that some styles are actually a portion of a larger system - which I agree with. So assuming Kou ch'uan is a small piece of what was left out of what many shaolin schools are teaching, where is their ground work coming from? In the short time I spent in longfist (4 years) I learned alot of chin na, but never anything ground based. our ground grappling was more or less poor bjj - like they had gone to a seminar and were teaching what they learned. How is one to know whether or not their style contains Kou ch'uan, and if it does, why wait X number of years in order to learn ground fighting? you can cross train and combine what you know with what you learn,when the time comes. This is problems with many Chinese arts, is that people take small pieces and open a school. Depending on the school, it is possible that they did a seminar, and brought back their "groundwork," and really how much can you retain and learn in a day, without the proper ongoing instruction? It shouldn't be a number of years before being introduced; however, it does come down to a quality issue that many martial arts have, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, and even MMA. To see this look within the MMA community, are there schools that "teach everything," but don't, or have a poor standard in aspects. It is all relative. This is my only point here, is that we can't lump everyone into a pigeon hole. I look at many Chinese styles, or even schools that claim to teach "Shaolin", and shake my head. To train multiple styles is fine, but it will still take time and experience to combine seperate arts, and fill in the gaps between. Some people do this well, others it may not be the case. Martial Arts School http://www.shaolinwushu.cahttp://www.liveyyc.comCalgary Photographer: http://www.jdirom.com
Sho-ju Posted April 11, 2004 Author Posted April 11, 2004 So, what have we come up with so far? Kung fu folks believe kung fu is too dangerous and therefore limited in mma fighting, while the other camp believes kung fu isn't fit for the mma ring (octagon). Which is it?
White Warlock Posted April 11, 2004 Posted April 11, 2004 Both "When you are able to take the keys from my hand, you will be ready to drive." - Shaolin DMV TestIntro
Treebranch Posted April 14, 2004 Posted April 14, 2004 It really depends on how you train. Certain Kung Fu's have been diluted but there are still some very effective Kung Fu's out there. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
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