MMA

[1ONEfighting]

MMA people do not have the dedication to make it through a structured style. So therefore, even if they say they use it, such as Wing Chun, it really is not used because they cannot spend the time it takes to perfect it and they perform it incorrectly. Even Bruce Lee never completed any system in his life, and now he lives on like that. My .02

 

Long

 

My 2 cents are as follows. MMA practitioners by and far train harder and better than any "structured style" on the planet. To claim allegiance to one style is the equivalent of shooting one's self in the foot. You take what works, and you drill it to perfection against an uncooperative and fully resisting opponent.

 

Don't confuse crosstraining with MMA either. Mixed Martial Artists train, eat, and live fighting. I would wager that any MMA fighter, even at the lowest levels with an 0-10 MMA record, would wipe the floor with any non-MMA fighter on the planet, under any set of rules.

 

But then again, I am trolling.

[White Warlock]

But then again, I am trolling.

 

Considering the topic at hand, yes you are.

 

Considering your argument, no... you're being just as shortsighted.

I would wager that any MMA fighter, even at the lowest levels with an 0-10 MMA record, would wipe the floor with any non-MMA fighter on the planet, under any set of rules.

I'll take you on that wager. Your pick of an MMA fighter against a kendo master. Weapons: body... and katana.

 

Oh gee, did i ruin your fun? Did i cheat? Didn't you say any set of rules? How about... no rules? What's wrong?

 

So many people have come to the foolish conclusion that the end-all of martial arts is 'unarmed.' It is not. Even more have come to the exponentially more foolish idea that competitions are the ultimate decider of true martial arts mastery. They are not. It is the street that you must prepare for, as that is where the true life-threatening circumstances will occur. In the street, there are a thousand weapons at your disposal and a thousand more obstacles to trip up a narrow-visioned fighter. Many kung fu practitioners study the concept of using 'everything,' not merely their body. This is primarily because many kung fu systems focus heavily on 'street' survival. The vast majority of their repertoire revolves around 'street-oriented' tactics and actions. Lots of people just look at the superficial aspect of these things and clearly do not see beyond their own ignorance.

 

But, seeing as i'm not interested on going to silly tangents, let's focus on this whole MMA classification. MMA = mixed martial arts. An MMA competition is a competitions allowing for different martial arts to participate. An MMA person is a person who mixes martial arts in his repertoire. Different animals altogether. And yet, the common classification is call those persons who enter into MMA competitions, such as the UFC, are MMAs. Well... so what does that say? Does it say that all persons who enter into MMAs are superior? Silly. Does it say that all MMAs (persons) are superior? No, obviously that is also ridiculous.

 

I've heard this countless times that those who compete in competitions and win medals are somehow better than those who don't compete, and only use their skills for 'real' situations. That those who study a variety of systems, piecemeal, are somehow better than the individual who dedicates himself to one system. But, consider this...

 

A man who obtains four bachelors degrees is not somehow superior than a man who obtains one doctorates degree. Different, but not superior. More adaptable, possibly... but clearly not superior. At least, not based on what they've learned. What makes one person better than another is the ways and means they utilize the knowledge they've obtained, and the manner in which they carry themselves through life.

 

Now, returning to the point of this thread... which is whether there are any kung fu practitioners in MMAs, yes. Yes, there are plenty. But, and the point here is... but... it is piecemeal. Just as the other systems they study are piecemeal.

 

BJJ is not a piecemeal system. It is a whole system, adapted and modified, but essentially based on a pre-existing whole system. Why do i bring this up? Because so many people are claiming that MMA 'competitors' are superior to non-MMA competitors, but then they get confused... and start thinking that MMA refers to the person, when in fact it refers to the competition. BJJ kicked some righteous butt at the UFC, and it did it alone... without any other systems to back it up. So when i hear someone say a 'mixed-martial artist' is superior... all i need to do is point at the Gracies.

 

The fact of the matter is, if you dedicate yourself to truly mastering your system, whatever system that may be, you will achieve significant abilities. If, however, you wish learn a variety of other systems piecemeal, remember that eventually you will need to put all of that together and create your own, personal, system. After that, you will need to perfect your skills in your own, personal, system. And, once you've done that... guess what? Yeppers, you will no longer be a mixed martial artist.

 

Imagine that... *poof*

Edited March 25, 2004 by White Warlock

[AndrewGreen]

Way to argue semantics....

 

But what have you accomplished? Nothing really....

 

Defeat the argument by redefining the terms to something that the person making it doesn't mean them as.

 

That is called a straw man

[White Warlock]

Responding with a tangential statement to the tangential statement made by AndrewGreen.

 

You think i was arguing semantics? Did you even read my post?!?

 

As to the straw man, i'm full aware of fallacious reasoning and that is not what i presented. In fact, what i did was dispose of his straw man (i.e., he made it himself, not me), in that he presented an argument based on a flimsy foundation, then offered someone to redefine the foundation. I simply removed the foundation and... wala... his straw man disappears into the ground. The fact is, i disposed of his false logic.

 

You just made an attempt to discredit my arguments by presenting a derailment on the topics. I.e., you pretty much said that what i posted was a play on words, when it clearly was not. This, my dear sir, is fallacious reasoning on your part and a rather common tactic in debates.

 

The thing here is... this is not a debate and i'm not in this community to debate. My post wasn't an argument, it was a presentation of information as a means to 'enlighten,' as most of my posts are. Debate really doesn't belong in a community like this. Discussion yes, debate... definitely not.

 

In truth, no straw man was presented, either on his side or mine. If you wish me to break the whole thing down into specifically what happened, i'm sure i could oblige. But that would be going way off the deep end as far as tangents are concerned.

Edited March 25, 2004 by White Warlock

[1ONEfighting]

Nice essay WW, but I did say I WAS TROLLING. MY arguments were not to be taken seriously.

 

BTW, My MMA fighter has a .308 rifle, and your kendo guy is dead.

[White Warlock]

BTW, My MMA fighter has a .308 rifle, and your kendo guy is dead.

[embm]

We pratice mixed martial arts in my dojang, however, we are based in TKD. My instructor, who has been in the martial arts for over 25 years, started in ITF TKD, but found many systems offered knowledge benefits and began cross training. He incorporated that cross training into our school's cirriculum. Which is why we learn judo break falling, grappling and ground fighting techniques, kali, and weapon skills etc. Martial Arts are Military Arts - it is an evolving, living thing.

 

Another nice thing about MMA is we can troll all the boards....

[Iron Arahat]

White Warlock, a nice piece there, and presents some good information.

 

As I said before no matter what you train it is how you train, and use the tools at your disposal.

[AndrewGreen]

" After that, you will need to perfect your skills in your own, personal, system. And, once you've done that... guess what? Yeppers, you will no longer be a mixed martial artist.

 

Imagine that... *poof*"

 

Imagine that, a play on words.....

[Iron Arahat]

The thread has deviated a long way from the original post.

 

Most MMA schools that I know are either focused on "sport" and "competition" UFC, IFC, whatever. They produce very good and talented ring athletes. They develop their style around winning on the ring, not saying that techniques cant be used otherwise, but their focus is "spot".

 

There are the other schools that feel they should take from other arts and combine, because other arts are incomplete. Use what is "usefull" and disregard the rest. They take what they feel is useful from boxing, jujitsu, tae kwon do, kickboxing, and others. They take bits and pieces to make their complete art. Many people who fall into this category claim that no one should be forced into a "style" and develop their own.

 

Typical problems specifically with the second type is a lack of a base in an art. A couple years here a couple years there, they become a "jack-of-trades", but a master of none. In many cases they have poorly developed skills, and pass on a unproven philosphy that they have developed. They will often claim a well rounded approach, that covers "all the bases", thus making them a complete art. When the truth of the matter is that they may have enough basics in each to get by.

 

This type will also make notation that they teach "all ranges of fighting", and name the shortcoming of other arts in this regards. While this may be true to a degree with arts that may be focused in "sport" others it can be far from true, but the MMA will believe that this is the case to ease their mind, thinking that their "global" training will be their advantage over anyone who is not of the same training regime.

 

MMA dodges behind a concept of "no fixed style", and that they adapt to any situation, based on the flow of a fight. Truth of the matter is no matter what you train, you will have strengths and weaknesses.