Jiu Jitsu in actual combat

[Venezolano]

White Warlock: You're wrong, BJJ ISN'T a sport, if you read BJJ's History you will see that when Gracies adapted Maeda's Jiu-Jitsu to form what we know today as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu it was not to create a "sport", it is a martial art. Now, that it be extremely effective in MMA fights and people consider MMA a sport today is another thing, but don't mix that 2 things.

 

Another thing you're wrong, is that you think that BJJ is ONLY ground fighting, it makes you look like you don't know nothing about BJJ for instance.

 

Am i insulting? who am i insulting? if you got alluded by my comments that's not my problem, i didn't insult anyone.

 

Second, i'm not saying that there aren't systems that not tech you to "fight against multipe attackers", what i said, is that they could tech it you, ok perfect, but they can't GUARANTEE, NONE style that it's gonna work for anybody, many experts says that best to do with multiple attackers is to run, not to try to be a "Bruce Lee", or some kung fu idols that appears on movies and can deal with 631631 attackers.

 

Treebranch: It's me that am being influenced by ninja movies? why? did i say that i can deal with 5454 attackers with my "fancys moves" from BJJ? that i can armlock all them? umm.. i guess no, i just adjust to reality, and what have been proved during years, not to MA that are "theoricals".

 

And believe me i would LOVE to visit you, so we could "spar" together and see.. it'd be an interesting experience, but if you know read i live in Venezuela, so NY is far away from here...

 

But i will keep in mind that when i visit NY go to visit you and see your "dangerous" world, with "dead strikes" and all those "stuff"...

[Treebranch]

Venezuelano the reason I said you are influenced by movies is that you obvisiously think Ninjutsu is a joke. I study Budo Taijutsu that has Ninjutsu in it, but it has very little to do with what you have seen in movies. So before you start insulting people, take the time to educate yourself and research Budo Taijutsu.

[WolverineGuy]

BJJ has already proven itself in ACTUAL combat...thats' where it came from. Same with early Judo. Stop bashing.

[Venezolano]

Treebranch i repeat you again, i'm NOT insulting you or anyone in here, if you feel alluded with my comments that's not my problem (and if you do, is for something), but you can say i am insulting anyone because that's false.

 

I guess in what i see that works, i have NEVER see that your Budo Taijutsu work, neither in street fights or NHB fights, so that's what i think.

[White Warlock]

Okay, this discussion is quickly degenerating.

Am i insulting? who am i insulting? if you got alluded by my comments that's not my problem, i didn't insult anyone.

Take time to review your earlier posts. If you can't see how you were insulting, i can't help you. I will, however, add that insulting remarks have not been one-sided (hint hint tree...).

 

Just to clear things up, i was not insulted... only noted how your posts were insulting in presentation. In fact, i was not insulted even by your latest post. Unbeknownst to the general populace, my frail ego can handle being wrong on occasion.

 

Too bad it wasn't on this occasion.

White Warlock: You're wrong, BJJ ISN'T a sport, if you read BJJ's History you will see that when Gracies adapted Maeda's Jiu-Jitsu to form what we know today as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu it was not to create a "sport", it is a martial art.

And on counterpoint, your failing to comprehend the context of my post makes your assumptions to my statements incorrect. I did not state that bjj was a sport and i am full aware of the short GJJ history. In fact, trivia is probably one of my strong suits, especially when it relates to things happening near what i consider to be my family's homeland (Argentina).

Another thing you're wrong, is that you think that BJJ is ONLY ground fighting, it makes you look like you don't know nothing about BJJ for instance.

And, again... your failing to comprehend the context of my post makes your assumptions to my statements incorrect.

 

I did not state that bjj is 'only' ground fighting, merely that it emphasizes groundfighting. Please reread my post, but not before you remove that vinegar stuck between your teeth. hehe...

what i said, is that they could tech it you, ok perfect, but they can't GUARANTEE, NONE style that it's gonna work for anybod

Actually, that's not what you said, but i'll agree on what you have just clarified as your intent in an earlier post. Just to add, there are no guarantees with anything you learn from any martial art under any condition or instance. That is the nature of the arts. They are dependent on far too many factors for guarantees to be placed on the contract of instruction.

 

However, learning the ways and means does provide an option not available to the untrained, or the other-educated.

[SevenStar]

That depends on the nature of the altercation and the practitioner. There are Budo Taijutsu dojos out there that train hard and do randori.

 

It goes beyond that. you are trying to train weapons, striking, throwing, locking, groundwork...spreading yourself rather thin. MMA training is more concentrated. That's part of why they tend to become proficient faster.

 

There's far more to combat then just being strong and powerful.

 

there's far more to sport fighting than being strong and powerful.

 

Personally I'd rather be the blade that becomes sharper over time than the one that constantly dulls. Most MMA's train for sport and do very little to no weapons training, therefore being able to handle multiple opponents is foreign to most of you. It's not about winning in the sense of defeating multiple opponents, it's surviving and evading.

 

From what many of us have seen the avg tma has trouble dealing with even one opponent. Sure that's a broad generalization, but look at the state of tma today. For every good school you find, I can find seven bad ones.

 

Doing what it takes to survive at all costs. So in combat you'd better know how to kill when you need to and do it fast.

 

And training lethal techniques at low speed with minimum resistance does this? In all of the years I spent in TMA, I never once practiced a lethal technique at full speed.

 

Also the physical conditioning that is envolved is the responsibility of the practitioner not the Dojo.

 

I slightly agree there. Whomever I am teaching may end up in a situation where they are in a long, drawn out fight, or one in which they must run. I want them to be prepared for that. Also, for the ones only pursuing MA for health reasons, me helping them get in shape benefits them. When I was in kung fu, we did alot of conditioning - not as much as we do in MT or BJJ, but we did alot.

 

So I agree you will see MMA's that are in generally better shape than Combat MA's, but that means very little when anything goes, I mean anything. So basically I really don't feel BJJ would be good in actual combat and there are better suited arts for that purpose. Is BJJ good? Sure, It's brilliant. For Combat? No, absolutely not.

 

I disagree. However, like anything else, groundfighting is an aspect of combat, and one that happens frequently. BJJ would benefit all MA greatly.

[SevenStar]

 

On the other hand, BJJ and most MMA training regimens provide ample 'hands-on' experience and work great for those practitioners that aren't self-motivated. I.e., those that need regular sparring and/or competition in order to maintain their edge.

 

I believe quite the opposite. BJJ, MT, etc. are friggin hard. That drives away people who aren't motivated. The people who compete are the ones who are constantly wanting to test and improve themselves, not the ones who are looking for motivation.

 

But, on one other hand, sport is sport, regardless of the rationale behind it. There are rules and i discussed this in another thread the very real difference in fighting on a smooth-surfaced and padded mat from within a cage or against the ropes, as opposed to fighting someone in the street, with uneven surfaces, sand, dirt, a myriad of weapons, and the ever-present threat of 'hidden' opposition within the crowd of onlookers.

 

There's also a difference between fighting full contact and point fighting, or no fighting at all...you bring up something interesting though - you are training to fight in the street right? Does your dojo/kwoon/dojang have glass and gravel all over the floor, or do you train on the same padded mats that we do? While you are sparring, do people just randomly jump in and help your opponent attack you? I've only seen that happen at one school, and that was the longfist school I attended. I know there have to be more out there though.

 

Last note. Venezolano... chill. You're being far too insulting. The fact of the matter is, there are systems that instruct in 'how' to handle multiple adversaries and some even practice these strategies regularly. To think that the end-all of things is one-on-one, is just as shortsighted as thinking bjj has no place in the street. Keep an open mind and remember that the reason so many systems exist is because there is so much to cover in so short a lifespan.

 

I see his point though - sure there are styles that train for multiple attackers, but how often is it done effectively? Naturally, the ideal option is to run. But if you have to fight, my money is on the multiple attackers.

[WolverineGuy]

If I can add my two cents, I don't really believe that any system has the "answer" for a multiple attacker situation. My style does TONS of multiple attacker situations, but our preferred method is get the heck out of there. What we offer is a strategy to get out of the situation alive if you can't run. I believe that's all ANY style can offer, because there are too many variables. If I'm attacked by several men on the street, and I end up having to fight my way out of it, I think that luck is going to have a lot to do with whether or not I succeed. Sad, but true.

[Treebranch]

You know there's just no room for new ideas, even if they are old ones. People make up their minds that they have found the answers when really there are no answers just questions. It is the questions or questioning that help us learn and grow. To disregard a style of MA because you've never seen it work or not work shouldn't be the way people learn. Experience is the only way to really know if something works in any situation. That's what Budo Taijutsu is all about and many Combat styles are similar in nature to this.

 

The definition of Combat that I am referring to is one that takes place in battle. Weapons and terrain and countless factor come into play which BJJ never touches upon whatsoever. Sorry but that's the fact. My friend is a BB at the Machado school and we talk about MA's and he has never mentioned once that they ever cover situations like the one's we are talking about now.

 

Now about training with weapons, locks and throws in the opinion of the uinformed sounding like we are being spread thin. That is so not the case with Taijutsu. You just wouldn't get it if I explain, you have to experience it to know. There are many things in life that have to be experienced to know not just seen on TV. I am glad that people disregard this art as being silly and useless. I will tell you one thing, I hope you never attack one of us on the street, you will have a rude awakening. WE DON'T FIGHT FAIR.

[Treebranch]

BJJ has already proven itself in ACTUAL combat...thats' where it came from. Same with early Judo. Stop bashing.

 

What War or conflict was this? What year? What Army has used this in battle? I'm listening.