Jiu Jitsu in actual combat

[Rich67]

The other day, I had the opportunity to attend a grappling seminar put on by the USMC (before I get bombarded, it's not available to the general public ). We did some take downs, judo like throws, and finally some grappling on the ground. I picked up alot of techniques that I was never aware of, and some I'm not even sure are taught in BJJ or Japanese JJ schools, so I thought I'd mention a couple and see if any of the practitioners of those arts recognize them:

 

1) From the open guard, your opponent is above you: you reach up quickly, place one hand on his chin, the other on the back of his head and twist, thereby twisting him off you (grab their head and the body will follow) and you push/pull with your hands.This move worked real well, I was impressed how effective it was.

 

2) From inside the guard, you can punch the opponent in the groin actually very easily. Now, I know this move is not allowed in dojos or MMA's, but I wonder if it's taught in dojos as a precursor to an actual streetfight? You do leave yourself wide open to that kind of attack if youre on the bottom. The guy your fighting with will look for stuff like that.Or, you can look for that to end the fight quick if you end up on top.

 

I sparred with one of the DT instructors there. My knowledge of BJJ is extremely limited, but I know a few techniques. I was able to fend him off for quite a while in from the closed guard, kept him from passing the guard well, and tried to put him in a kimura. He managed to wriggle out of it, then jabbed his thumb behind my ear in a pressure point (a good move to distract BTW), and then managed to lock up my arm. He was impressed I lasted as long as I did, and I was pretty happy with myself.

[SevenStar]

I can't see either of those techniques working, unless you're fighting an extrem beginner. It's my lunch break and I'm headed to the gym, but I'll address it when I get back.

[SevenStar]

I got real busy after lunch. Ah well...

 

1) From the open guard, your opponent is above you: you reach up quickly, place one hand on his chin

 

any grappler with a decent guard is postured up and ready to pass - you would not get that ahand around the back of his neck. Also, extending your arms like that is a general no no. that will get you in the habit of extending them from any position, which is VERY bad.

 

the other on the back of his head and twist, thereby twisting him off you (grab their head and the body will follow) and you push/pull with your hands.This move worked real well, I was impressed how effective it was.

 

It quite easy to push an extended arm off of your body. How hard was the other guy fighting him? Did he try to guard pass or move the guy's arm?

 

2) From inside the guard, you can punch the opponent in the groin actually very easily.

 

Once again, any half decent guy is postured and ready to pass. even if you can reach his groin, you won't be able to do enough damage to end the fight.

 

then jabbed his thumb behind my ear in a pressure point (a good move to distract BTW)

 

Did he extend his arm to do so? If so, then he was begging to be either arm barred or triangled...

 

 

 

and then managed to lock up my arm. He was impressed I lasted as long as I did, and I was pretty happy with myself.

 

He locked your arm from the guard? he should've passed. you don't do submissions when you are in someone's guard, as you are at a disadvantage.

[WolverineGuy]

You're not necessarily at a disadvantage while in the guard. If both people know what they are doing, the guard is positionally neutral. If you have the opportunity to submit at ANY time, do it. While it's always imperative to get to an advantageous position, if the submission is there, and you have a pretty decent shot at locking it in, take it.

[White Warlock]

1) From the open guard, your opponent is above you: you reach up quickly, place one hand on his chin, the other on the back of his head and twist, thereby twisting him off you (grab their head and the body will follow) and you push/pull with your hands.This move worked real well, I was impressed how effective it was.

Besides the points already brought up, the fact that you are committing two arms to one action, while leaving their two arms free to act in whatever way they wish, should ring a few warning bells.

2) From inside the guard, you can punch the opponent in the groin actually very easily. Now, I know this move is not allowed in dojos or MMA's, but I wonder if it's taught in dojos as a precursor to an actual streetfight? You do leave yourself wide open to that kind of attack if youre on the bottom. The guy your fighting with will look for stuff like that.Or, you can look for that to end the fight quick if you end up on top.

Strikes are a feature not commonly practiced in grappling schools, and they are useful. The thing is, every time you present an attack, you expose yourself to a lock. The more energy you put to an attack, the more vulnerable you are. Consider this.

 

Also consider that it is not easy to target the groin, if you are inside a 'proper' guard. This is important, because a lot of people think that being between someone's legs is being 'inside' the guard. And while this may be true if your opponent actually knew what the guard is (and therefore knew how to work the guard), most do not. Having someone between your legs doesn't mean a dang thing if you don't know how to work the guard.

 

Last note. Not to hurt your ego, and i may be wrong here but, the fact you were able to keep that guy at bay, even though groundwork is not your specialty (as you indicated), tells me that he wasn't well versed either.

[Rich67]

I'm pretty new to this stuff. It seemed like a good technique. Probably since I don't have much experience, I didn't know how to properly counter the moves/ be in a good position. Honestly though, if I were to use those techniques against a non-grappler...they might work well. Experienced grapplers...forget it, I guess. Thanks for the input guys. I have a long way to go before I can recognize the opportunities during a grappling match.

[SevenStar]

You're not necessarily at a disadvantage while in the guard. If both people know what they are doing, the guard is positionally neutral. If you have the opportunity to submit at ANY time, do it. While it's always imperative to get to an advantageous position, if the submission is there, and you have a pretty decent shot at locking it in, take it.

 

you are at an extreme disadvantage... what can you really do from there, as far as subs go? kimura, americana, and choke, all of which require your body weight to be forward, asking for a sweep. Better safe than sorry - just pass his guard. If you get to a point where you are positionally neutral, then you can't sub him anyway, as you are postured up. Once you are postured up, pass.

[WolverineGuy]

Chokes, leglocks, pressing armlocks, neck cranks, are all possible from the guard. The person underneath can control the hips, and has many opportunities for submission, but all of the limbs are exposed for submission himself. Both sides have to be equally careful when passing/sweeping/going for a submission that they are not reversed.

[SevenStar]

unless you're fighting a beginner, you're not gonna get a leglock while you are in someone's guard - same goes for a neck crank. The things you mentioned are possible, but how probable?

[WolverineGuy]

Granted, those things are easier in no-gi competition. But the bottom person does not have a decisive advantage unless he is much more skilled than you are. Even the Gracies, who fight from the guard probably more than anyone else, preach that the guard is positionally neutral.