Basic Karate Punch - Full Twist vs. 3/4 Punch

[xianzhong]

http://www.yorkkarate.com/Articles/Punching_Power.pdf

 

What are your opinions on this article?

 

I have been practising this type of punch for the past year or so, and find it to be superior and a lot more natural compared to the full twisting punch.

[cross]

In my opinion the 3/4 fist is more practical in most cases and allows you to hit more easily with your first 2 knuckles.

[Uechi Kid]

The truth of the matter is that the punch that twists starting palm up and twists palm down or even three quarters is a watered down punch. The most effective punch is one that starts palm down and turns only a half a turn. Don't get me wrong I don't punch this was because that isn't the way we punch in Uechi Ryu, but it is the best way to punch.

[cross]

Don't get me wrong I don't punch this was because that isn't the way we punch in Uechi Ryu, but it is the best way to punch.

 

So you practice punching with a full twist because thats the way they do it in Uechi Ryu even when you know its not the best way??

[White Warlock]

San soo taught me a more practical approach to the angle of your punch, which is that it should be based on the target and your angle of trajectory.

 

The way i modified this approach, for training purposes, was to angle the punches based on how you would hold a 'wide' steering wheel (taking into account, and including, the way your body twists up or down when grasping the wheel from the top or bottom, respectively).

 

Sticking to that PDF, the 3/4 decreases the possibility of wrist injury, although a 1/2 angle (as applied in wing chun) is far safer.

[Pacificshore]

When you use the 3/4 punch, you get better bone alignment making for a stronger punch.

[Sauzin]

I like the article but I disagree with it fundamentally and I would like to present a slightly different perspective.

 

I believe the first question one must ask themselves is, “What position is my fist in when it first makes contact with its target?” I prefer to make initial contact before any turn has begun (in the palm up position). I do not think there is any question as to strength of the arm with the palm turned up. With the elbow in, bent, and down there is no stronger position. There is a reason our mid-blocks come here. Uppercuts and inside jabs further demonstrate the strength of this structure in close. It does, however, lack reach. If it is overextended it looses its solidity. So we must then turn the fist to obtain the full extension of a punch. But what happens to the wrist as it turns? It grips. One forearm muscle after another tightens in coalition with the others adding incrementally larger amounts of tension and solidity. By tightening the fist and rotating it the grip becomes exponentially stronger. To test this try gripping a regular grip spring exercise tool. Grip it once without rotating it. Then grip it as you rotate the wrist, the same way you would a punch. It will seem much easier. The arm is designed to grip and turn.

 

So this establishes the reasons behind both the starting position and the turn. But why turn it all the way? Well the first thing to note is that by the time the punch has reached the ¾ position it is 95% complete. Most if not almost all the force has already been absorbed. What then is left? The fist must reach full extension and impact to its target. Really how far the fist turns over depends on what you hit. Hitting the solar lexis will cause the fist to naturally stop at ¾ because the shape of what you are hitting will match your fist. In fact this will naturally occur with many targets however some will require a full turn to match the shape of your fist to what you are hitting. Practicing a partial rotation will limit the punches ability to match these target’s shape and reach its full extension and damage. What I am suggesting is to practice a full turn but to learn how to land and feel your fist into a target so that it ends naturally where it fits. This will allow for the greatest amount of damage when hitting the body.

 

Further benefits are gained by practicing the full turn. It is harder to maintain proper alignment when the fist is turned all the way over. That’s the point. The dynamic tension created by forcing the proper alignment further strengthens the forearm. I believe that training with a full turn produces a stronger fist in the end.

 

To summarize, it is of little consequence which ending position is stronger as the same principles and structures are used during the moments when the impact is absorbed. Utilizing a full turn offers a greater mobility of the fist to match its target and trains a stronger punch in the end.

[xianzhong]

interesting arguement, thanks for the post Sauzin

 

but I don't think that training with the full twist will do much to strengthen the arm

[delta1]

Interesting article and replies. I've heard this punch referred to as a natural, 3/4, angled, or diamond punch. It is preferable for jabs as it is much quicker due to its not setting up the stresses referred to in the article. Hold your own arm out and rotate your fist, stoping in the variouse positions, and you can feel this for yourself. And, dare I say it,... the natural punch does not block qi flow. That it is less likely to harm you is a definate bonus, but there are a lot of things that determine the position of the punch:

 

target- for a hard target you definately want the first two knuckles in the lead. Hitting the jaw, vertical fist.

 

What you are trying to do- driving down just above the pelvic girdle to unballance him, horizontal fist.

 

position of origin- From an outward block, the fist will only twist naturally into a vertical fist.

 

fit- an inverted fist or a hammer fist fits best in the eye socket.

 

distance to target- if the target is moving away so you need just a little more distance than you thought, and you have a clear shot with no chance of retaliation, the fist may even completey invert to a reverse vertical position.

 

Also, consider that changing body allignment slightly alters the fists naturally alligned position. For example, hold your right fist out in the natural, relaxed position. Now, turn your right foot in at 45', rotating on the ball of your foot. Freeze! Now, notice what happened to your allignment as your body and shoulder naturally rotated, and the relaxed fist went horizontal.

[ESA-Shotokan]

Very interesting article.

 

 

I have to admit, from experience I have found that the punch used in Wing Chun Kung Fu (but using the same two knuckles as in Shotokan fits me a lot and not the knuckles of the little and ring finger) suit me a lot.

 

I guess the 3/4 turn is a nice half way meet between the Wing Chun and Karate punch, hence you get that good balance and strength of technique.

 

Yes, I can agree with that article but I bet you £100 you will still find me doing a basic karate punch (horizontal) most of the time, out of pure habit.