knife and gun defense

[daoshi]

So, the numerous stabbing patients I have taken care of in 19 years of EMS that were still alive have all been figments of my imagination?

 

I agree with you. I've been stabbed and know others who survived stabbing. If a skilled knife fighter attacks with ferocity though, delivering deep wounds to the kneck and chest the knife defenses that we have learned in most arts will not work very well.

[White Warlock]

Scare tactics on knives? White Warlock, how are we doing that?

It was this line, "The truth is, if a person attacks you with a knife, you will die. None of the traditional martial arts defenses will work against a knife fighter. A knife attack is an assassination, not a fight." posted by daoshi, that pushed me over the edge and motivated me to participate in this thread with that opening line. Comments made by others were much milder, and thus didn't incite my participation. Jerry's posts somewhat intrigued me, which is the wherefore and why of my queries on those issues.

 

And for the full story on "Why White Warlock Writes Long-Winded Posts," you could buy my biography for a mere $24.99 on amazon.com. Or, you can order the entire video collection on DVD for a truly inspiring treatise on "The Wherefores of White Warlock's Witticisms."

 

Yes... i'm kidding.

[JerryLove]

I'm not sure I agree with the second one, especially if you're facing a skilled opponent. I did notice you said a basic usage tactic.

 

The third is simply the first restated.

 

You don't agree with keeping the knife in motion? Does your art not cover the "action vs reaction" issue? A knife in motion is easier to move into use and far more difficult for an opponent to mount an assault on. There is no [normal] time, regardless of skill level, where I would advocate standing still or not moving yor weapon.

 

There is a difference between "keep the knife in front of you" and "keep the knife between you and your opponent"; though I fully admit that they are often both accomplished through the same thing.

 

What I ment by the former, yo uknow, what I mean by the latter comes into the "block with your knife" concept.

[JerryLove]

I had an acquaintance that was stabbed 49 times (he was a fellow cab driver, San Diego, 1988... check microfiche in the Union Tribune, case you think i'm full of crap). He survived.

I, for one, have no trouble believing you. While a knife coming into play is very lethal, the comment made by some that it is "sure death" is a vast overstatement.

An untrained person could be shown, in 15 minutes, how to use a weapon, and even given some basic ideas on where to hit... but we all know that 15 minutes does not make a combatant

Actually, if I only have 15 min one way or antoher, there's nothing that I can think of more effective. Considering entirely untrained people kill each other with knives all the time, I don't see how you think someone with short-training in principles would not.

 

That said, I am not advocating a "15 minute seminar". Usually I teach that short version as a demonstration, or to a martial artist.

I have not seen the tactics or techniques you are inferring here. I learned to keep my knife out of contact range, until given the opportunity to make a defining strike. My training, and what i've found to be most successful during practice, is to have my knife in my rear hand and to strike at any limb that grabs (or thrusts) or at any vital organ/target that i am able to expose. The three thoughts you present above don't hit me right.

You are welcome to your opinion, and were this not such a remote method of communication (were we face to face) we could just show each other what we mean and sort it out.

 

If you are interested, I believe the "knife-play" video on my website includes some offensive use of a knife which fits the criteria I described (please focus on offensive use by Sigung Clear, not the training dummy)

In the posing of the knife between you and the opponent, i see that as a good way to cut down on your 'reaction time,' thus giving your opponent a slight advantage.

 

This seems to run entirely opposite of reality to me. Putting my knife nearer to my opponent makes me capable of cutting him faster, not slower.

As to the knife in motion... I would say it would largely depend on the 'type' of motion. I would also have to say that it would be far more important to keep 'you' in motion, than it would be the knife.

To start with "any motion", though I would advise against some sort of large "twirl the knife around" thing. I mean "back and forth, up and down".

On the part about the knife shielding you, as opposed to shielding the knife, I agree that there is no need to shield the knife but, exactly how effective do you think a knife is in shielding you and is this not encouraging a defensive posture?

Give your training partner a knife. Tell him to hold it out in front of him and draw zig-zags in the air. Have him advance on you. See how defensive it feels.

[Mc. Steve]

When practicing gun/knife disarming techs, when you have performed the technique, do not give it back to your opponent straight away. Put it on the floor, turn and run a metre, whatever. You do not want the "handing back" movements to be associated with the technique in your head.

 

RS

[JerryLove]

Actually, personally, I immediately go offencive with any weapon I can control. Wheather in my hand or theirs.

[Sasori_Te]

I agree. If I take it away, it's mine to use.

[Xtra Tribal]

Bad Bad Knife Ideas:

 

Scare tactics (Bad for guns too)

 

Fighting for a disarm

 

Engaging in a knife fight

 

Thinking you won't be cut

 

Not running when you had the chance

[JerryLove]

Scare tactics (Bad for guns too)

 

I don't always agree. Dark knives are nice because, if you know how, you can keep your opponent's energy low and defenses insufficient by not letting him realize you have a knife and he is being cut.

 

OTOH, shiny knives can both make someone nervous (and nervous people are less analytical), and can make them over-focused o nthe knife... It is your best tool, but if they are willing to chase around after it, that's very exploitable.

 

There are many violent encounters that end because of the presence of a fiream... you need to be ready to use it and recognize when to, but you can win by fear.

[Xtra Tribal]

Jerry Love,

 

Have you even sparred with foam, wooden or aluminum training knife? Do you know how long before someone is "cut"?

 

You will notice if your opponent has a blade because if you don't have one you're done, whether your "keeping his energy low" or not.

 

I'm saying that using a knife as a scare tactic is a bad survival strategy. Like a gun, you pull it if it's the last resort. To promote any other ideas on this forum is criminal.