knife and gun defense

[JerryLove]

You must be some teacher JerryLove. This guys name is Ernie Mayer and he's a natioanlly recognized knife instructor with several real knife fights to his credit. He has the scars to prove it. Even with his teaching technique it takes several months to become slightly proficient.

No, yo ucould take the same stuff and teach it in a similar amount of time. The thing about a knife is that it is an effective weapon... what takes time is the "working against a knife" material.

 

That isn't to say you can't spend more time getting better, but we just had a seminar on offensive knife work last weekend... it's not that difficult to have very effective knife skills.

 

Perhaps he has not considered it (experience != knowledge), perhaps he finds that there is not much money to be made in what most anyone can learn in a short time and show others. Perhaps he's more concerned with knife defense (which does take time). Perhaps you are in error about what one of us is saying.

[Sasori_Te]

I'm assuming that you're talking about using a knife against an unarmed opponent? If not, you'll excuse me if I disagree with your post.

[JerryLove]

I'm talking about offensive knife useage. What your opponent has is more to do with defense (presuming you wish to survive), which I have already pointed out takes time.

 

Though knife-vs-knife is a more tennable position for you than empty-vs-knife (assuming your opponent, too, would like to remain alive), it is still a "vs-knife" and therefore would call for knife defense skills... which take quite a bit of time (as I stated above).

 

Of course, good offensive knife skills can win you the knife-on-knife fight... how much training does your opponent have? But as the all-too-true joke goes:

 

"Q: What do you call the guy that bleeds to death in the hospital the morning after a knife fight?

 

A: The winner"

[Sasori_Te]

Okay, I'll bye that. If you don't mind, please explain more about what you teach on offensive knife usage. For example, tapping versus cutting or stabbing. Hand postion that type of thing.

[JerryLove]

On the really basic level

 

- Don't shield the knife, let it shield you

 

- Keep the knife in motion

 

- Keep the knife between you and your oppoinent.

 

I'm less concerned with grips, though in the case of "you've got ten minutes to teach, go" I'd default to the forward grip (how you use a knife to cut a steak).

 

If you've ever seen a scared person use a knife to defend themselves, you've got a solid idea. They put it in front, wave it about, and stab/slash defensively at anything that gets near them. Do that without the panic and you've got a good, basic knife-useage tactic.

 

Mind you, I've got far mroe deatiled stuff... my whole art is a knife art, but that's the most basic.

[Sasori_Te]

Thank you for the over view. We called the first point you made, _Don't shield the knife, let it shield you, Teeth and claws forward. You get a better picture by imagining an animal on the defensive.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the second one, especially if you're facing a skilled opponent. I did notice you said a basic usage tactic.

 

The third is simply the first restated.

 

I do agree about the grip you've chosen. I call it the natural grip.

 

I don't suppose we need to agree on everything. That's what makes the martial arts so great. As they say, "There are many paths to the mountain top, but the moon looks the same when you get there." Thanks for the clarification.

[daoshi]

Always carry three knives. Pull one, then talk the assailant into putting the knives down. Then pull your backup and throw it at him. Then pull your third knife in case you miss the throw. The idea is to have an unarmed assailant.

 

Throwing takes a lot of practice.

 

The truth is, if a person attacks you with a knife, you will die. None of the traditional martial arts defenses will work against a knife fighter. A knife attack is an assassination, not a fight. As fast as a person can sucker punch you, he can put a knife in you. It happens all the time. Most deaths occur with a three inch blade through the ribs.

 

If your grandma or a drunk prances in front of you with a knife, then you can try your black belt techniques.

 

wushidao.com

[White Warlock]

Let me jump in for a second.

 

I had an acquaintance that was stabbed 49 times (he was a fellow cab driver, San Diego, 1988... check microfiche in the Union Tribune, case you think i'm full of crap). He survived. My father was assaulted with a knife and survived, no training (other than boxing 40 years earlier). I was assaulted with a knife twice, minor cut on my hand once.

 

Let's not push out all this scare tactics on knives. Knives are deadly if they hit a vital organ or succeed in cutting a main artery. Other than that, they are not that deadly. An untrained person could be shown, in 15 minutes, how to use a weapon, and even given some basic ideas on where to hit... but we all know that 15 minutes does not make a combatant (as i was recently reminded). Even less one that applies what they've learned in 15 minutes to a situation they must react to three years later, at the height of their adrenalin rush, while being accosted... or while accosting another.

On the really basic level

 

- Don't shield the knife, let it shield you

 

- Keep the knife in motion

 

- Keep the knife between you and your oppoinent.

I have not seen the tactics or techniques you are inferring here. I learned to keep my knife out of contact range, until given the opportunity to make a defining strike. My training, and what i've found to be most successful during practice, is to have my knife in my rear hand and to strike at any limb that grabs (or thrusts) or at any vital organ/target that i am able to expose. The three thoughts you present above don't hit me right.

 

In the posing of the knife between you and the opponent, i see that as a good way to cut down on your 'reaction time,' thus giving your opponent a slight advantage. As to the knife in motion... I would say it would largely depend on the 'type' of motion. I would also have to say that it would be far more important to keep 'you' in motion, than it would be the knife. On the part about the knife shielding you, as opposed to shielding the knife, I agree that there is no need to shield the knife but, exactly how effective do you think a knife is in shielding you and is this not encouraging a defensive posture?

[equaninimus]

The truth is, if a person attacks you with a knife, you will die. None of the traditional martial arts defenses will work against a knife fighter. A knife attack is an assassination, not a fight. As fast as a person can sucker punch you, he can put a knife in you. It happens all the time. Most deaths occur with a three inch blade through the ribs.

So, the numerous stabbing patients I have taken care of in 19 years of EMS that were still alive have all been figments of my imagination? Somehow I doubt this. If the knife hits a vascular organ like your heart or liver, or severs a major artery than you will likely be DRT (dead right there ). However, damage to the hollow organs, or other soft tissue damage probably won't kill you immediately.

 

Incidentally, I have seen people with knives stuck in their chests, the infamous pulsitile knife wound, where the blade tamponades off the hole in the myocardium, one of whom walked toward us as we pulled on scene, so if the gods love you, you may even survive a stab to the heart! I'm sure his medical bill put some deserving CT surgeon's child though college!

[Sasori_Te]

Scare tactics on knives? White Warlock, how are we doing that?

 

I personally believe that a knife is every bit as dangerous as a gun. It may be easier for a physician to repair knife damage than a bullet wound (maybe depending on the location and type of knife wound). A severed artery is still a severed artery regardless of the cause.

 

Personally I'd rather not have either to contend with. But I honestly say that I would rather be shot at ( note I said shot at) than sliced with a knife.

 

I've also never had to reload a knife because I missed.

 

with that said, I also wouldn't want to bring a knife to a gunfight. I'm rambling incoherently now.