Native American Martial Arts

[fireka]

of course there are tons of asian styles around, and organizations like ARMA are reviveing european arts, i'm really suprised we arn't teaming with 'dojo's' for Martial Arts created by the original Native American tribes, I knwo they must have had some. If i'm not mistaken, the reason the Special Forces patch is an arrow head is in honor of native American stelath fighting tacticts. so why is it we don't have this being instructed? I bet they could blow Ninjitsu out of the water if we could just get them in the market.

[tommarker]

I would imagine that those who know it keep it to themselves, family members, and a select few others. Personally, I don't blame them any more than I'd blame those who would "sell out" and teach it openly.

 

The idea of learning such a thing indoors in an urban environment seems almost bizarre to me though.

[fireka]

I have to disagree with you, which is about to make this controverseal. I know why they would keep it to themselves, but I think it's a bad move. For one thing everytime I hear something about Native american society today it's always "No one cares for our culture." well i did. I go through bouts we're I become obsessed with different mythologies and culuturies, my friends say I'm a different race every week. I became intrested in the mythology of Native Americans on our side of the river and went to this museum to learn more. There was a tour guide of Native American decent and when I tried to ask a question I was completley thrown down and given a pathetic excuse for an answer that basically added up to 'well your a white boy so of course you don't know about that, nor should you." If they want me to care about there culture than I suggest they open up, I didn't do anything to them.

 

And by 'selling out' thats a sad statement, teaching someone else a Martial Art and teaching it responsibly is not selling out, its contributing to your community and to your world, for beofre we are members of any nation, neighborhood, or tribe, we are citizens of the world. I don't mean they should commercialize it, but they could do some good by teaching these arts to people outside there own small communities.

[fireka]

Oh, also you mentioned teaching it in an urban enviroment, you wouldn't necissarily have to. i think the closest we coem to teaching it comes from the BSA, which I do not support any longer, but they just teach in the woods, where it belongs. You could certainly do this, but there may even be some styles that could potentially be taught indoors. After all, with all the different tribes there are there would be many different styles.

[tommarker]

I'm not going to debate whether doing so is right or wrong, just being my usual pessimistic self.

 

Look at the Chinese martial arts community. There are still plenty of masters out there who ain't talking. And I don't mean just to us white folk, but some of these family styles are secret for very traditional reasons. Just because we live in a relatively peaceful time doesn't mean that everyone is willing to give away survival secrets that have been handed down for generations.

 

I imagine many Native Americans feel the same way. And yes, there's probably also a certain amount of European settler resentment as well.

 

Also realize that Native Americans have spent generations trying to overcome the "Savage Red Man" stereotype and that teaching "secret scalping techniques of the Cherokee" isn't going to do much for that image. Yes, yes, yes there's more to martial arts than that. You know it, I know it, they know it. But the general public doesn't.

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience while learning Native American culture. There's a lot of people out there who (right or wrong) have a chip on their shoulder. Be patient and sincere, and you will learn what you want to learn.

[White Warlock]

To assume it is not shared, is to not look deep enough.

 

Here's an interesting interview on the subject -

 

http://www.9ways.com/taohouse/updates/update.htm

 

There are many videos available on native indian archery and bowhunting techniques. A few are, "Bowhunting Across America," "Mariposa," "On Target for Fun," "One on One Bowhunting," and "Straight to the Point."

 

here's one on the indian fighting techniques (plains indians) -

 

http://www.martial-arts-videos.com/indian-fighting.htm

 

Adrian "Chief" Roman

 

http://www.adrianroman.com/

 

And here's his association -

 

http://www.adrianroman.com/american_indian_warrior_council.htm

 

An event is scheduled for May 22-23, "Gathering of People" in Barkeyville, Pennsylvania. In addition to many other native American displays, an indian by the name of White Panther will be having a Native American Martial Arts Demo and Display. For more info, or possibly gain direct communication with White Panther, contact: Maryjane Angelo at skyespirit@pathway.net, or phone - 814-786-9677.

 

And here's a few other tidbits -

 

Native American Weapons

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0806133465/ref=pd_sim_books_5/103-2012710-5714202?v=glance&s=books

 

Survival Skills of the North American Indians

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1556523459/ref=pd_sim_books_2/103-2012710-5714202?v=glance&s=books

 

Yes, i did your homework for you.

[White Warlock]

Ahh, hehe... here's two more -

 

American Indian Fighting Arts Association

 

((removed - fraudulant. see later post))

 

Native American Martial Art of Inikte

 

http://www.inikte.com/

 

(edited)

Edited March 3, 2004 by White Warlock

[Treebranch]

Fireka said:

of course there are tons of asian styles around, and organizations like ARMA are reviveing european arts, i'm really suprised we arn't teaming with 'dojo's' for Martial Arts created by the original Native American tribes, I knwo they must have had some. If i'm not mistaken, the reason the Special Forces patch is an arrow head is in honor of native American stelath fighting tacticts. so why is it we don't have this being instructed? I bet they could blow Ninjitsu out of the water if we could just get them in the market.

 

If you compare the Samurai warfare that date back 1000 years and compare it to the Native Americans warfare and weaponary you'll get your answer. Ninjutsu was basically Samurai fighting arts with some stealth so I don't think our cowboys would have had it so easy if you replaced all the Native Americans with Samurai and Ninja. You also have to look at the cultures of both the Japanese and the Native Americans, that has alot to do with it. No doubt there were fierce tribes that were expert fighters, but BLOW IT OUT OF THE WATER? I doubt it very much.

[Sasori_Te]

I've seen several of these "New Age Indians" claiming to be holders of ancient American Indian martial arts. Invariably they are all piece - a - meal styles made up of various Asian techniques. Most of the time these are done poorly.

 

It's funny that White Warlock mentioned the American Indian Fighting Arts Association and Ten No Kishi Dojo. I personally took it upon myself to investigate Mr. Reagan's background a few years ago when I first heard of him. I lived in Arizona at the time and saw an article with some of his self-proclaimed exploits. The highest rank that I could validate was a shodan in Judo certified by the USJF. Now pit this against his lineage that he claims:

 

Soke Harley Swiftdeer Reagan's

 

Lineage in the Martial Arts

 

Judo

 

Swiftdeer started learning Judo when he was 8 years old. In 1958, he received his 1st degree Black Belt in Judo from Ace Sugigari, through the Armed Forces Judo Association (AFJA). Later, the AFJA became the United States Judo Association (USJA), and Swiftdeer received his 2nd, 3rd and 4th degree Black Belts in Judo directly through the USJA and the United States Judo Federation (USJF) / Kodokan. He then received his 5th degree Black Belt in 1979 through the main Hombu in Tokyo, Japan, from Phillip Porter, through the USJA.

 

 

 

Jiu-Jitsu

 

In Jiu-Jitsu, Swiftdeer received his 1st degree Black Belt in 1959 from Ace Sugigari in Fort Worth, Texas. He then received his 2nd degree Black Belt from Tad Osaka in Kyoto, Japan in 1961-1962, and his 3rd and 4th degree Black Belts from Master Tadaharu Yamaguchi, 10th Dan, Supreme Master, Shorinji-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu. He received all his subsequent Jiu-Jitsu ranks through Master Tadaharu Yamaguchi and the Ten-No-Kishi Dojos Main Hombu, Osaka, Japan.

 

Karate

 

Swiftdeer received his 1st Black Belt in Karate from Kobayashi Sensei in Shotokan Karate. His 2nd Black Belt, in Shorei-Ryu-Kenpo, he received from Lowell K. Lum (Go Dan) through Nippon Kobudo Renmei. He also received Black Belts in Chito-Ryu directly from Master Chitose in Japan and in the USA.

 

Swiftdeer received various Black Belts in Shorin-Ryu-Karate in Okinawa. The ranks came trough Lowell K. Lum, Wallace W. Reumann, Don Drager and Master Kobayashi (who also certified Robert Trias). The current Japanese Master in Shorei-Ryu-Kenpo and Shorinji-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu is Master Kobahashi, from Osaka, Japan.

 

Aikido

 

Swiftdeer received his 5th degree Black Belt in Aikido from Master Tohei in 1979, in Pasadena, California.

 

Current Promotions

 

Recently Swiftdeer has received his promotions in Judo, Jiu-Jitsu and Karate from the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame (WMAHF) through Dr. Moore. Soke Swiftdeer's current certification comes through the WMAHF Certification Branch of the International Society of Black Belt Examiners and The International Society of Sokeship Council, as well as through Ten-No-Kishi Dojos in Osaka, Japan. All his students are registered and belted through Ten-No-Kishi Dojos.

 

The moral of the story boys and girls is Caveat Emptor! If I am mistaken about any of this and you have solid proof then I will gladly remove this post and issue a formal apology to Mr. Reagan and his organization.

 

I would urge anyone to check out the quality and validity of their instruction before hand. I will list again the link to the dojo so that you can take a look for yourself: http://www.ten-no-kishi.com/index.htm I'm not sure if I should be posting this, so if I'm stepping over the limit I apologize in advance to all of the admin and moderators of this forum. This is just a personal pet peeve of mine that people represent martial arts this way.

[Sasori_Te]

He also claimed a bunch of super human feats and heroics when He was in Vietnam. As a former soldier and veteran of the Gulf War, I find this just as disparaging as the martial arts claims. He's soiling the memory of the many Americans that have actually fought and died for their country. Sorry again, but this guy really pushes my buttons! These claims were in another local paper's interview with him. Please don't think that I'm slamming him from some personal vendetta. By all means look up his name on a Google search and see what others think about him as well.