Striking Vs. Grappling

[AndrewGreen]

It's all about movement.

 

You can be seperated

 

Clinched

 

Or on the ground

 

Pure striking does not give you all 3

 

Pure grappling does

 

That is why in mixed competition Grapplers generally win.

 

If you want to be a well rounded MAist you need to be able to control position, anywhere. And to do this you NEED some grappling.

 

You also need a strategy on what you are going to do from that position. This can be restrain, strike, choke, cause pain, break, dislocate, etc.

 

All are good tools, not all are good for all situations.

[cross]

Now as Far as self defense situations go I belive Striking is generally a better option but not for that reason.

 

Control is not the only reason why i think striking is more effective. Im interested in hearing your reasons.

[Drunken Monkey]

but then not all striking arts are like boxing in that punching/covering is all you do.

 

before we take the hit, we first aim to control the opponent's movement by cutting off lines, tieing up his arms, control his balance etc etc.

 

in truth it's not far from what grapplers do on the floor (with the exception that you control via holds that last longer than the little trapping hands we use).

 

add to the fact that most striking styles actually have a world of joint locks and arm locks within the system and what you actually have are two types of systems (grappling and striking) that are more similar than you think.

[SevenStar]

I've always thought of grappling as a last resort.

 

no offense, but that's the wrong thought. you use the best tool for the situation. Also, remember that grappling isn't strictly ground work.

 

In an unarmed one-on-one fight, grappling has a lot of merits if you have the skill. Unfortunately, unarmed one-on-one fights don't always happen. If your opponent has a knife or any small sharp weapon, you are at a big disadvantage if you are grappling because he can slash and stab you almost at will. Yes, you may armbar him, but you'll have blood vessels slashed all over the place. If you stay on your feet, you have a better chance of avoiding knife attacks. You'll still probably get cut, but not as much as if you are right next to him in a grappling situation.

 

once again, you're looking at it wrong. In a grappling situation, I actually have more of an advantage against a weapon. Why? because I can control the weapon. If I don't have control of you, you can stab and slash at will. If I have you controlled, you cannot. The potential of getting wounded is greatest when I try to close the distance - not after I have you under control.

 

The other problem is if there are other people around. They may be your opponent's friends, or they may just be random people. Some people will just join a fight if they feel like it. If you're on the ground choking your opponent, watch out because his friend(s) will come and kick you while you're on the ground. Its a lot easier to fight multiple opponents if you're stood up.

 

I agree with you there. One thing people tend to forget though is that a choke or an armbar only takes seconds to do - I'm not waiting for you to tap. Another big misconception is that the grappler wants to go straight to the ground on the street, which isn't true.

 

Basically it depends on the exact situation. But I'd always be wary of taking someone down in case they pull a knife.

 

see earlier comment about controlling weapons.

[SevenStar]

but then not all striking arts are like boxing in that punching/covering is all you do.

 

before we take the hit, we first aim to control the opponent's movement by cutting off lines, tieing up his arms, control his balance etc etc.

 

boxing and thai boxing do this. We call it stalking.

[SevenStar]

y'know, i never thought of trapping, pinning, and shutting off lines to be grappling.

 

guess that's cos i'm too used to just knowing it as 'trapping'.

 

hmm, that's probably why i'm convinved you can apply wing chun principles on the ground because it is more of less the same kinda thing that you are dealing with: feel pressure coming from somewhere, ease pressure...

 

I don't consider trapping as grappling, as you are not clinched. I define stand up grappling as locking, throwing and clinchwork. You can transition from trapping to grappling, but I don't consider them the same.

 

Also, WC locking, chin na, etc. will not directly translate. I've grappled with people who have tried it. If you do regular training on the ground, you can play with your mechanics and figure out the adjustments you need to make, but it won't directly transfer.

[Tal]

I've always thought of grappling as a last resort.

 

no offense, but that's the wrong thought. you use the best tool for the situation. Also, remember that grappling isn't strictly ground work.

 

Yes, of course you use the best tool for the situation. That's obvious. What I'm saying is that in the vast majority of situations, grappling is best left as a last resort IMO. This is speaking for someone with roughly equal skill in striking & grappling. A skill grappler that has no striking experience would probably better off getting into a grapple straight away.

 

You can defeat an opponent quicker with strikes (a single strike an almost any neck pressure point will knock most people out), and you can get away easier. Getting away is a major factor IMO. Anyone could join the fight at any time, and the extra couple of seconds you have to get away when standing up might save your life.

once again, you're looking at it wrong. In a grappling situation, I actually have more of an advantage against a weapon. Why? because I can control the weapon. If I don't have control of you, you can stab and slash at will. If I have you controlled, you cannot. The potential of getting wounded is greatest when I try to close the distance - not after I have you under control.

 

If you are including stand-up grappling here, then I agree to an extent. When I hear 'grappling' I tend to think groundwork automatically.

 

If your opponent has a weapon drawn, then you have to close in and take control of the weapon. What I would fear is starting a grapple with an apparently unarmed opponent, only to have him draw the weapon when we're grappling. This is very dangerous, as you're right next to him don't have control of the weapon initially. You'll most likely get stabbed several times before you can take control of it. However, if you keep your distance and use your striking, then when he pulls the weapon you can close and take control of it before he has the chance to use it.

I agree with you there. One thing people tend to forget though is that a choke or an armbar only takes seconds to do - I'm not waiting for you to tap. Another big misconception is that the grappler wants to go straight to the ground on the street, which isn't true.

 

How many seconds? The time it takes to choke someone is plenty long enough for someone to stamp on your head, and while you're choking it will be hard to defend yourself from that stamp. You also have to get into position to lock first. While you are doing this, people on their feet can hit you easily.

[Drunken Monkey]

fair enough.

 

i guess i'm kinda looking at it at from the viewpoint of two wing chun guys, forcing pressure and leaking pressure when the arms are about to be pinned somehow...

 

can't really explain in words.

 

byt yeah, i can see where there are bound to be differences, especially seeing as the stand up stuff needs a firm stance/structure to work.

 

but still, i'm pretty sure the underlying principles are similar.

 

and i wasn't actually taking boxing to be the fixed definite, rather taking the common view of what boxing is.

[SevenStar]

You can defeat an opponent quicker with strikes (a single strike an almost any neck pressure point will knock most people out), and you can get away easier. Getting away is a major factor IMO. Anyone could join the fight at any time, and the extra couple of seconds you have to get away when standing up might save your life.

 

I agree with that, except for the pressure point thing - that opens a new dicussion that's beyond the scope of this one...

 

If you are including stand-up grappling here, then I agree to an extent. When I hear 'grappling' I tend to think groundwork automatically.

 

gotcha.

 

How many seconds? The time it takes to choke someone is plenty long enough for someone to stamp on your head, and while you're choking it will be hard to defend yourself from that stamp. You also have to get into position to lock first. While you are doing this, people on their feet can hit you easily.

 

I agree with that - it's an assessment issue. Ideally, If I go down, I want to use grappling to get back up. You don't search for a choke or arm bar, you just take the opportunity if it's there.

 

 

[JohnnyS]

When people fight they get adrenaline coursing their system. One of the effects of adrenaline is tunnel vision. You are just as vulnerable to an attack from an outside party if you're standing or on the ground. I've seen plenty of people trading blows with one person and then get his from behind.