Why do some call TKD "Take Ones Dough"?

[aefibird]

What boards are they then?

 

The forums. (Karate Forums)

 

Some people call TKD "Take One's Dough" because of its supposed many McDojos/McDojangs. However, there are good and bad schools within any martial art and it is a bit unfair to single out TKD as a money-grabbing style when, as many people on these forums will testify, it has reputable clubs and is a serious martial art.

 

I know you were asking a serious question, krunchyfrogg, and if you're looking for a new MA or MA school then it is right to ask questions about a possible new style. Good luck in your search for a new dojo, but remember there can be McDojo's in any style!!

[Rich_2k3]

I know, I was just wondering why he had a real large message box, he might have meant to give links to threads.

[miguksaram]

Simple, the majority of the TKD schools out there have become belt mills. Where as you will pay a high sum of money and receive your belt regardless if you deserve it or not. Most likely you will receive your belt within two years if you test on your regular set time (every two months). No, TKD is not the only system that does this, but they are the most infamous. Plus Taekwondo sounds very close to TakeOnesDough.

[krunchyfrogg]

What boards are they then?

I know, I was just wondering why he had a real large message box, he might have meant to give links to threads.

 

LINK

 

From that thread:

Shotokan, then take-one's-dough. Both had fairly zealous "marketers" in the JKA and the Korean government.

[kotegashiNeo]

I trained at a awesome dojang with great instructors but the belt grading fees were ridiculous, plus I was getting a belt every month almost, it was a belt factory and I didn't even know it. On the other hand I have a friend who runs a great dojo, so becareful if you choose TKD, scratch that just becareful all styles have mcdojos.

[Gyte]

Hi all,

 

I have trained in a Taekwondo school that you would call a McDojo (or McDojang). Whether it's a McDojo or not you may decide.

 

The expertise of the teacher was low. The way he taught, I think I could do the same thing also, or perhaps even better. I was just a yellow belt student then. The fees were not expensive but moderate. The teacher even got complaints from some colleagues of why he kept the fees so low.

 

The training consisted of first a very severe training (lots of running, jumping, pushups, situps and squats), then kihon kumite, then kata training and in the end jiyu kumite. Every lesson we would train in this scheme and we trained twice a week.

 

The kihon kumite training consisted of numerous trainings about how to block and counterattack a front punch (oi zuki). We however never did use these techniques in jiyu kumite, because nobody used punches in jiyu kumite.

 

The teacher let us practise kata (hyung or poomse) but he almost never taught the bunkai of it. The only thing I got to learn from the bunkai were a few remarks from the teacher and that's it, nothing else.

 

The jiyu kumite consisted of just kicking, nobody ever attacked with punches. Leg grabs and leg sweeps weren't allowed. The back wasn't considered as a target area. Blocking consisted of no more than just a tap with the hands on the attacking leg of the opponent.

 

Exams were twice a year and mostly everybody past these exams. A strange thing was the fact that we had to break one or more boards during exams, while we never got any training in it. I think this was very unresponsible from the teacher. He should have at least given us a few trainings, before letting us break boards. That's why it sometimes happened that a student would injure his hand during these board breaking events. I know at least two cases of this.

 

So, I want to ask everbodies opinion does this school fit into the description of a McDojo????

Edited February 11, 2004 by Gyte

[Shorinryu Sensei]

I don't want to turn this into a TKD bashing thread, but since the subject has already been broached, I'll add my 2 cents worth here.

 

In my 29+ years in the arts, I have had the opportunity to watch, and in a few cases, participate, in dozens of TKD dojangs in Montana, Idaho, Washington, California, Wyoming, Colorado, Georgia and Florida. I have also, as a judge and referee in dozens of open tournaments, gotten to watch and judge God knows how many TKD exponents in sparring, kata, breaking and weapons competition.

 

Not all of these people I would classify in this manner, but I would say that the vast majority of TKD people I have met are grossly over-ranked for their skill level. By that, I mean that I have seen probably a hundred (+/-) TKD blackbelts, some ranking as high as 9th Dan, that I wouldn't consider skill-wise to be better than MAYBE a brown belt (just under black belt). Obviously, different people/systems have different standards for rank, and I'll readily admit, mine are quite high. I do not give out black belts to children (for example), because I feel that a black belt means that you should be able to teach ANYBODY if needed to, and I can't see a 6-12 year old black belt teaching a class of beginning ADULTS, nor being able to spar realistically with them. Also, a black belt to me means that that person should be able to handle MOST self-defense situations on the street against your average adult. Tell me honestly, can a 8 year old black belt, regardless of which system, really handle a 6', 200lb adult that is trying to take their head off? I don't think so, unless they are very lucky.

 

With this in mind, my favorite term when talking about TKD is "McKwanDo". Basically, just like McDonalds, they have served over 4 BILLION, there's one on just about every street corner, they pass out belts like fast food burgers, and the quality of their product is poor/sub-standard.

 

As I said, this has been my experience, and doesn't apply to all dojangs and TKD participants I have seen...just the much larger majority of them.

[FlailingLimbs]

Yeah, I'm (primarily, right now at least) a shotokan student, and I've seen a few karate styles/places that were McDojo'd. I'm absolute crap where I go, not to mention I'm what is probably my sensei's biggest embarassment, but when I took time off to explore other styles, I was like a king. There were people supposedly training longer than me and *I* was doing better than them. I am *the* king of medeocrety!! Now THOSE places were McDo.

 

(kyokushin is another story...)

 

However, I have seen many more McTKD places like that

[stl_karateka]

Perhaps the reason the reason there seems[\i] to be so many bad TKD schools is because there are so many TKD schools.

 

If we were to look at percentages[\b] then perhaps the number wouldn't be so high.

 

Example...in upstate NY karate seemed more popular and I've seen my fair share of poor karate dojos

 

Also, TKD is more in the spotlight cause of tournaments and competitions so it is easier to critque than other styles

[miguksaram]

Agreed...The original question was why do some people call Taekwondo TakeOne'sDough. That has been answered. TKD does not have a monopoly on this. There are many arts who do this, but TKD is just the most popular and henceforth the easiest target. I have spent 19 years in TKD, both traditional and sport. I have seen awsome TKD schools. I have seen total McDojang TKD schools The same goes for Karate or Kung Fu.

 

Just remember the golden the rule. It isn't the style, but the individual that counts.