are real fights necessary for becoming a good fighter?

[SevenStar]

 

But training in the martial arts is the best preperation you can do. That's why we spar, that's why we practice our punches and our blocks.

 

true, but some methods, like point sparring, can be counter productive to learning how to fight.

 

Besides, from what I understand, every blackbelt test out there involves full contact fighting, usually all of the other blackbelts in your school. That's as real as any fight, and probably the hardest one you'll ever be in.

 

yeah, but if that's the only time in your MA career that you've fought, then you are still severely lacking in the experience area. I would reccomend that all MA fight full contact in the ring at least a couple of times in their life and spar hard on a regular basis. But that's just me.

[SevenStar]

Are you training to be a fighter, someone who gets in the ring and fights, or are you training to be able to defend yourself? I hope I am never in a fight, but I train all the time. I want to be able to DEFEND myself, not face someone toe-to-toe and fight. That's why I learn self DEFENSE! I am not training in self offense.

 

So, if you want to train to be a fighter...get a coach, and you will get all the real sparring you want. Don't get self defense and fightiing mixed up.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I would rather know how to fight than to defend myself...

[SevenStar]

My question is, do you need real combat experience to be a good fighter, or is controlled training enough?

 

what's the level of control? full contact? most likely. Point sparring? unlikely.

 

 

[SevenStar]

First what is necessary in a fight is will. You have to be willing to put yourself in harms way, and be willing to do seriouse harm to another human. Fear, while it can debilitate, can also give you this will. A lot of what the reality training courses do is teach you to harness and use fear. Same with the adrenal dump. You also have to get over a lot of moral training that is generally wrong. "Thou shall not kill" and "Turn the other cheek" has been pounded into most of us all our lives. And, I'll say flat out that 99% of the preachers, teachers, and others who throw this drivel at you don't have a clue what they are talking about. The first passage is more accurately translated as "Don't commit murder", and the second was for the specific purpose of showing restraint to win converts, not for someone punching your face. So, the first requisite is that something has to be triggered in your brain that takes you out of this complacent, civilized mode and put you into a combat mindset.

 

Second, you have to have intent. A hard defense is ok, but you won't win anything unless you intend to do dammage. They say that most soldiers experiencing combat for the first time shoot to miss. You may have the will to face your opponent, you may even be willing to hurt him some. But in a seriouse fight, you have to have the intent to take him out before he takes you or someone else out.

 

Next, you must have some skills. Not just the ability to strike, anyone can do that. You need to strike effectively. You also need to do it in the chaos of a fight. Huk Planas said "Expect chaos, train in chaos, thrive in chaos." The person who does that will probably win.

 

All of this can be studied and trained for. So, no, you don't have to actually go out and look for trouble to learn to fight. Some people can do this naturally, for others the situation may be sufficient. But I'd say if you are training for self defense or to use your arts in some capacity, you need to train for these skills as much as for the actual techniques.

 

good post.

[SevenStar]

You need to strike effectively. You also need to do it in the chaos of a fight.

 

That's the tricky part. How do you train to to fight in chaos? The only thing I can think of is to have your Sensei randomly jump you in the middle of a training session. I've never seen that done in any dojo. Perhaps it would be a good idea to try

 

when I was in longfist, we did that during rank tests. sifu would talk to us before class and give us a sign - a cough, and hand motion, etc. the people testing did not know. when he gave the sign, three or four of us would attack a person. he didn't do this to every person (for example, out of 5 people testing, only three may get jumped) and he didn't do it on every test, so you never knew whether or not it would happen to you. All you knew was to stay alert, because it might happen.

[Tal]

Besides, from what I understand, every blackbelt test out there involves full contact fighting, usually all of the other blackbelts in your school. That's as real as any fight, and probably the hardest one you'll ever be in.

 

My black belt tests only involved semi-contact. I tried boxing when I was younger but kept getting my * kicked. I've been thinking of trying Muay Thai for a while now but there are no Muay Thai schools near me.

[granmasterchen]

nothing can fully train you for a real fight.

 

the best you can do is create situations that are as close as possible and train over and over, or look for fights , but that isn't too wise or humble....

[Rich67]

It all depends on what you mean by being a good fighter. A good fighter can be considered one that does nothing but tournament fights and sparring matches with rules/ regulations and points. They are outstanding competitors. But a good street fighter is a completely different animal. There are no rules in a street fight, no points awarded. It's a matter of win or go to the hospital or sip meals through a straw for a couple months or worse. A good dojo/tournament fighter may or may not be able to hold his own well, but in all honesty, if you are a good dojo fighter then you should do well in a street fight. Most street fighters have little to no martial arts experience, which gives us a good advantage. The only thing is, get some grappling experience. Most street fights end up with standing grapples or end up on the ground completely. And a lot of the guys may have done high school wrestling. It's always good to be able to deal with that by preparing for it. Lastly, the adrenaline of a street fight can make many people turn into blubbering balls of confusion. It's important to keep your calm and poise. A lot of martial artists may lose the fight purely because they are so amped, their technique goes out the window. That feeling you have before a competition? Magnify that ten times when the adrenalin gets pumping. Cold hands, tunnel vision, the shakes, knee-knocking, etc... all that can hit you quick and if you can't cope with them you'll lose.

[SevenStar]

It all depends on what you mean by being a good fighter. A good fighter can be considered one that does nothing but tournament fights and sparring matches with rules/ regulations and points.[/b]

 

the term fighting denotes contact. there is no significant contact in point sparring...it's only a game of tag.

 

A good dojo/tournament fighter may or may not be able to hold his own well, but in all honesty, if you are a good dojo fighter then you should do well in a street fight. Most street fighters have little to no martial arts experience, which gives us a good advantage.

 

That actually gives you a disadvantage in many cases. In an MA teacher's process of teaching you discipline and control, you lose that killer instinct that a street fighter has. Proper mindset is the single biggest determining factor in a fight, not skill level. The pscyho that wants to kill me and rape my girl, then kill her scares me a lot more than some MA black belt any day. Also, point fighting forces you to limit the level of contact, which will be reflected in a fight. I've seen MA get into fights and lose because they pulled their punches out of habit. They had no power. In addition, if you only point spar, then get into a real fight and get hit in the jaw, that may very well end the fight. You have to know how to deal with full contact strikes. Try this - get up and spin around as fast as you can 20 times - get real dizzy. Now, stop and start throwing punches and kicks. That's what it feels like after a solid shot to the jaw.

 

 

 

The only thing is, get some grappling experience. Most street fights end up with standing grapples or end up on the ground completely. And a lot of the guys may have done high school wrestling. It's always good to be able to deal with that by preparing for it.

 

I completely agree.

 

Lastly, the adrenaline of a street fight can make many people turn into blubbering balls of confusion. It's important to keep your calm and poise. A lot of martial artists may lose the fight purely because they are so amped, their technique goes out the window.

 

That applies to anybody. street fighters also. Here's the difference. When your heart rate jumps above 120 or so, you will forget anything that is not ingrained in your "muscle memory" so, the spinning kicks, throat stikes, etc. that you practice but don't train all the time will not be used in many cases. a street fighter already has basic skills - punching and takcling - so this will not affect him quite as much. The MA has alot more in his arsenal. If he's spent too much time on other stuff and not enough time ingraining his basics, then guess what - when it's time, his basics will fail him.

[delta1]

In an MA teacher's process of teaching you discipline and control, you lose that killer instinct that a street fighter has. Proper mindset is the single biggest determining factor in a fight, not skill level. ... I've seen MA get into fights and lose because they pulled their punches out of habit. They had no power. In addition, ...You have to know how to deal with full contact strikes.

 

That says a lot, all true. It goes back to my point about will, intent, andskill. You have to understand and train for the difference before you need to use your skills for real. You'll find that getting in and really hitting someone is easier talked about than done. And taking a light tag on the chin is a lot different than having it wrench your head and neck. Likewise, it is a different animal to see what is comeing in a light match and one where the blows come fast and hurt more. Your mindset has to be to occupy his space, take his will, and destroy his ability to continue to fight, which means hurting him severely and quickly, and continuing to hurt him as long as is necessary. It means there are no cheap shots or dirty tricks, only surviving. Another quote I like, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't prepare well enough." But, as sevenstar points out, this is an alien mindset to most of us. We need to train for this mindset from time to time, as well as doing basics and techniques under stress. Start having your uke deliver his attacks with street force and I bet you find a few things: first, you need to practice some more, then you need to modify the response somewhat from the dojo response, and mostly you'll notice that it is a lot harder to pull anything off under a forcefull assault, even in the relatively safe training environment.