are real fights necessary for becoming a good fighter?

[Tal]

I was thinking, I havn't been in a real fight for several years. I feel I'm getting out of touch and my MA practice is becoming less meaningful. In my mid and late teens I used to get into fights fairly regularly and my MA had a lot of meaning. I learned which MA techniques worked and which ones didn't in real situations, and I could go through real fights in the dojo and learn how I could have better dealt with the situation.

 

I'm now a more mature person and real fighting isn't a regular event in my life anymore but I feel that if someone attacked me now I wouldn't be as able to defend myself as I was a few years ago.

 

I hear stories of martial artists who got into a real fight and get beat easily, and I also hear stories of martial artists who get into a real fight and win easily. Everything seems so chaotic - outcomes of fights seem depend almost entirely on the individual and the situation - can a MA really make that much difference unless the practitioner gets real 'practice'?

 

What do you think? Is real fighting necessary to be a good fighter? And what is the best preparation for real fighting other than real fighting itself? I've tried competitions, but they don't feel anything like the real thing and I never come away from a competition feeling 'satisfied', whereas I used to come away from real fights feeling satisfied that I had learnt something, even if I 'lost'.

[Northren Ogre]

If one has never been in a fight, but trains regularly, can they still call themselves a good fighter? I say no. I've been in a lot of fights...like you in my younger days, but they come sporadically now because of my career, and I still belive that being a good fighter comes from within. I've run into a lot of "martial artists" who have talk about their belts and how many years they've trained and all the stuff they know, but have never used it for more than showing off forms or patterns, and when it comes down to chucking knuckles they fold like a cheap suit.

 

Being a "good Fighter" takes more than martial arts knowledge. You have to have the right type of mental capacity to actually fight. Remember in the movie "Fight Club", where the homework assignment was to pick a fight with a stranger and lose, and how hard it was for them. The majority of people in this world have gone through life without ever being in a fight, so how do they know the frame of mind you have to be in to actually get it done.

 

I think being a good fighter does have to require at least being in a fight. If you've been in a few, as you stated in your post, then you know what it's like and what it actually takes to get through it. It's more a frame of mind that makes a person a "Good fighter", being able to risk getting smacked and keep going takes a lot of b alls, that the everyday person, and a lot of so called martial artists don't seem to have.

[White_Tiger]

Are you training to be a fighter, someone who gets in the ring and fights, or are you training to be able to defend yourself? I hope I am never in a fight, but I train all the time. I want to be able to DEFEND myself, not face someone toe-to-toe and fight. That's why I learn self DEFENSE! I am not training in self offense.

 

So, if you want to train to be a fighter...get a coach, and you will get all the real sparring you want. Don't get self defense and fightiing mixed up.

 

Just my opinion.

[White_Tiger]

It was my first post in the Combative Martial Arts forum...maybe my comments are out of line for this forum. I apologize.

[Tal]

Northren Ogre, that's pretty much what I've been thinking. And man, I love Fight Club best movie ever.

 

White_Tiger, defense is fighting (unless you have the option to run or talk your way out of a situation). I don't see how you can defend yourself from an attack without fighting.

 

By fighting I mean physical conflict with another person(s), armed or unarmed, with no rules (i.e. not sparring). Whether you attack that person or defend yourself from that person's attack, its still fighting. Besides, maybe one day I will want/need to take offensive action against someone! You never know. I have done in the past.

 

My question is, do you need real combat experience to be a good fighter, or is controlled training enough?

 

I don't think your comments are out of line, but I don't see the difference between fighting and physically defending yourself. I think fighting and self-defense are not only mixed up, they are inseparable.

[delta1]

First what is necessary in a fight is will. You have to be willing to put yourself in harms way, and be willing to do seriouse harm to another human. Fear, while it can debilitate, can also give you this will. A lot of what the reality training courses do is teach you to harness and use fear. Same with the adrenal dump. You also have to get over a lot of moral training that is generally wrong. "Thou shall not kill" and "Turn the other cheek" has been pounded into most of us all our lives. And, I'll say flat out that 99% of the preachers, teachers, and others who throw this drivel at you don't have a clue what they are talking about. The first passage is more accurately translated as "Don't commit murder", and the second was for the specific purpose of showing restraint to win converts, not for someone punching your face. So, the first requisite is that something has to be triggered in your brain that takes you out of this complacent, civilized mode and put you into a combat mindset.

 

Second, you have to have intent. A hard defense is ok, but you won't win anything unless you intend to do dammage. They say that most soldiers experiencing combat for the first time shoot to miss. You may have the will to face your opponent, you may even be willing to hurt him some. But in a seriouse fight, you have to have the intent to take him out before he takes you or someone else out.

 

Next, you must have some skills. Not just the ability to strike, anyone can do that. You need to strike effectively. You also need to do it in the chaos of a fight. Huk Planas said "Expect chaos, train in chaos, thrive in chaos." The person who does that will probably win.

 

All of this can be studied and trained for. So, no, you don't have to actually go out and look for trouble to learn to fight. Some people can do this naturally, for others the situation may be sufficient. But I'd say if you are training for self defense or to use your arts in some capacity, you need to train for these skills as much as for the actual techniques.

[Tal]

You need to strike effectively. You also need to do it in the chaos of a fight.

 

That's the tricky part. How do you train to to fight in chaos? The only thing I can think of is to have your Sensei randomly jump you in the middle of a training session. I've never seen that done in any dojo. Perhaps it would be a good idea to try

[delta1]

Random jumping drills (a la the Pink Panther movies) are fine. So are other awareness drills. But, the real chaos starts when combat is engaged, whether a surprise or not. The way to train for this is to pad up, glove up, get in close and mix it up. None of this 'tag sparing', or hold him off with a few kicks. Get in close,where things happen fast, and hit hard. Learn to take the hits and still function. AND, for a real dose of chaos and awareness, NOW is when the instructor should jump in and thump you! Enjoy!

[Treebranch]

Yes, I think it helps. But if you never have to fight than you've lived a rich life.

[krunchyfrogg]

If you never get into a real fight, you won't actually know, for sure, how good a fighter you are.

 

But training in the martial arts is the best preperation you can do. That's why we spar, that's why we practice our punches and our blocks.

 

Besides, from what I understand, every blackbelt test out there involves full contact fighting, usually all of the other blackbelts in your school. That's as real as any fight, and probably the hardest one you'll ever be in.