Aiming to bounce or to go through?

[Sasori_Te]

You are talking about something else entirely now. As I said before each of these techniques has a place. You are talking about stealing balance. You call it follow through. I call it a push immediately after impact. We weren't ever really talking about the same thing. At least I didn't follow where you were going at first. In essence we are both right then. The push through after the punch does not cause more force to be exerted on impact, which is what I thought you were saying. It does cause a lesser amount of force to be exerted after the initial force of impact over a longer time in order to accomplish a specific task, in this case stealing the opponents balance.

[Drunken Monkey]

well, as jerry said elsewhere,

 

the physics involved is actually more complicated than this because well, we're not point masses.

 

one of the facts of reality that, like you say, balance is invoved.

 

in most cases, you would rather be making a good hit AND take their balance.

[Sasori_Te]

I think it all boils down, like most things in the martial arts, to what you expect to achieve from the technique. There is no absolute right and wrong here. The physics are far more complicated but my examples will suffice to back up my arguments here.

[Treebranch]

Well I say if the hit knocks your opponent down so you can stomp him, then it was a good hit. If the hit left him standing in pain, but still in the fight then I guess you'll have to hit him again.

[JerryLove]

JerryLove. I'm not trying to form a scientific theory. Rather I use the laws of motion and some basic physics regarding the transfer of force to explain what happens when you hit a human body in two different fashions.

That sounds like a theory to me.

Alos, no matter how lightly you hit an object you will have return force. Remember, every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

You previously said:

You hit and go through and the punch isn't pulled back after you made some pentration contract you will feel the viberation shock go back into your body meaning you are taking some of the energy and shock your self.

 

You said this as part of your argument that withdrawing was superior to not withdrawing; and as such, your clear inference is that you would not get such a result from withdrawing your hit.

 

Now you contradict that inference by saying you will always get that result. Since the standard is somewhat subjective (in a legalist sense the two positions are not interactive with one another), I will not attempt to impose a definition; but I would insist that you be consistant with yours.

This is nonsense. The amount of force delivered is determined by how much body mass you can put behind the strike and how much that mass is accelerated on the way to the target

 

Biomechanics is not Newtonian physics.

you need to have penetration of the target by using a point approximately six inches beyond the contact point as an aiming point. Still this has nothing to do with whether or not you follow through the strike or not.

 

Emperical data disagrees with you. Not only in personal experience trying variations on hitting, but in other even more tested fields such as golf and baseball. Ever play golf? A lot of work goes into how you follow through after hitting.

[Northren Ogre]

I like your golf example...same could be said for baseball...when one bounces the ball with the bat it becomes a bunt. When one follows through it becomes a home run.

[Sasori_Te]

Alright Dr. Love. It's spelled "empirical" btw. I'll agree that biomechanics is not Newtonian physics (although all movement including that of the human body is governed by these physics), if you agree that the human body is not in any way similar to a golf ball or any other type of ball that is designed to be hit with a specific instrument. At any rate, you obviously have your opinion on the subject and I have mine. The way we're going, we could be discussing this until one of us keels over. Here's one final experiment for you. Try hitting a water core bag with a bat or a golf club or any other weighted rigid object. Let me know how that turns out for you when you try to follow through.

[Northren Ogre]

When I smash trough my Water core bag, will you send me a new one?

[blitzcraig]

hehe